No he didn't. I take it you didn't watch any of the trial.

It seems a lot of the different views depend on what different folks consider to be the "point" at which "instigation" or "the event" occurred.

For some, a creepy big guy, armed and following you down the street in a car at night is the instigating point.

For others, a teen in a hoodie roaming the streets at night is the instigating point.

For yet others, instigating didn't occur until the two were both outside the car, standing face to face yelling at each other.

Where you believe the "event" started has a big bearing on how/when/why it might have been prevented, and who "started" it.

It sucks that it escalated the way it did. Both parties minding their own business or letting the proper authorities respond would have prevented the fist fight and the death.

^ What he said. Personally I think there were multiple instigation points, all courtesy of Zimmerman:

1. Following a pedestrian in your car
2. Rolling up the window and refusing to answer when said pedestrian confronts you about why you're following him
3. Leaving the vehicle, after the police tell you REPEATEDLY not to leave the vehicle
4. Having a gun in your hand when you leave the vehicle

think the reason for using violence in self-defense is when they actually start swinging at you, or give reasonable demonstration of intent to. I'm not allowed to beat people up simply because they're yelling at me.

1. He was a neighborhood watchman.
2. This never happened.
3. The police never told him not to leave the vehicle.
4. It is his right to carry a gun, and based on what happened, it's a good thing he had one.

Hmmm... that's funny. Every account I've read says he was told repeatedly by the dispatcher not to follow Martin, and not to leave his car - to wait for the police. Every account I've read also says that Martin approached the vehicle, and Zimmerman rolled up the window without replying and continued speaking to the dispatcher.

As for your #4... that's just the NRA speaking. That gun is the whole problem - you're so concerned about your second amendment rights that a 17-year-old boy is now DEAD, and you can't even see the tragedy in that because you're so busy patting yourself on the back for protecting your right to bear arms.

Congratulations. You can carry a gun. Yay you.

Personally, I think it's a tragedy that could have been avoided had that moron NOT had the right to bear arms. Maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to stalk a pedestrian in his motor vehicle if he hadn't had the extra comfort of knowing that he could blow his victim away if he blinked twice.

BTW... being part of the neighborhood watch does not give you the right to stalk another human being and not give them some idea of your intent. All he had to do was roll down his window and say 'Hey, I'm with the Neighborhood Watch, and I just wanted to introduce myself.' He could simply have opened a conversation (like we do up here in Canada, where we don't give a gun to every unstable moron who asks), and found out what the kid was doing in 'his' neighborhood.

I don't know what account you read. There was never any testimony, ever, that they spoke when Zimmerman was in the car or prior to when the fight broke out. All the dispatcher told him was that they "did not need Zimmerman to follow Martin", to which Zimmerman said "OK". They never told him to stay in his car. As to your latter point, sure Martin would be alive if the 2nd amendment didn't exist. Zimmerman might not be though. Personally, I'm not willing to give up liberty for the added security that repealing the 2nd amendment would supposedly give.

Dispatcher =!= police

A dispatcher cannot give orders. A dispatcher CAN give suggestions, which is what the dispatcher did that night.


BTW, MSNBC screened a picture of Treyvon's dead body right as the trial was in its last stages. If you wish to see it, you can do a google search.

It was a police dispatcher, although I don't understand what you're trying to say. When you're on the phone with 911 and they tell you to get your ass down because shots are being fired, do you argue with them and say 'Hmmm, I think I'll wait for the police to tell me that'? And I also don't know why I would need to see a picture of his dead body.

Klown: Here's the transcript. It clearly states Martin approached the car - and no, they didn't speak. But if they had, perhaps Martin would be alive today. It also clearly states that Martin RAN AWAY. It clearly states that the dispatcher told him not to follow. But he did, and then he got out of his car, and then he pulled a gun and shot that unarmed boy dead.

http://www.documentcloud.org/...transcript-zimmerman.html

Race Riots have begun... http://news.yahoo.com/...op-freeway-072536291.html

Oh great. That'll help. NOT. *sigh* It'll be Rodney King all over again. :(

Patience if you really feel that we should give up our guns, just petition the Canadian government to invade the US. then y'all will be able to create a new constitution for US and everybody will live happily ever after.

since when does instigating give someone the right to attack someone?

http://www.wnd.com/...von-whooped-zimmermans-a/

pretty sure we got hits because our AT posts were insulting... *runs away*

Zimmerman's account of events to police say #2 did happen. He told police Martin approached his car and in response Zimmerman rolled up the window.

The folks who stand to make a buck from it, that's who!

911 operators give advice, not commands, for liability reasons. Ignoring them or complying with them carries no consequences except in civil liability cases where your state has a good Sumatran law that includes provisions that you cannot stop the act of saving someone once you have engaged in the action (ie you can't wade partially into a creek to save someone drowning and then stop halfway--yes this exists in many states).

At the end of the day, there was not ample evidence to even meet the manslaughter charges. It's not about what any of you think the law should be morally, it's about what it is. The burden is on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime they're charged with. Hence how OJ got off because there was doubt created when the glove didn't fit.

Since there isn't any evidence that's compelling, it becomes a he said/she said with questionable eye witnesses, some of whom were seeing something from quite a distance. It's very hard to secure a conviction with that in mind.

People say that's a flawed system, but it's the most fair one we can think of. And those whining about the laws--do something to change them, quit whining. I spent several years working in the legislative setting and I heard plenty of people whine about various laws, but they were too busy to even submit written testimony, let alone write their state or federal elected officials.

Whats the good Sumatran law? is that new? I've of the good sumaritan law.

i hope someone gets revenge and shoots that fluff zimmerman

This one's new to me too. I've only heard of the good Samaritan law.

You are not allowed to be a fluff about spelling if you can't spell or use grammar yourself.

http://m.theatlanticwire.com/...-zimmerman-was-gay/67235/

Lol.
Christ on a crutch!

bwahahahahaahahahah...you bunch of assholes!!!

Roflmao.

Another obvious perversion this case has shown is: How we no longer have news sources that are worth relying on for attempting to deliver news but instead only to provide sensationalized drama, no matter how badly they must misrepresent facts to gain ratings, or to sell there political bias.

might be a Canadian thing. if they don't walk around quietly like all the other sheep, then it might be a wolf, and they're allowed to beat up wolves. though, you'd think wolves would be a lot quieter than sheep when they're stalking them.

Skittles of mass destruction!
Either thats the case, or a grown intelligent man stalked a young highschool student at night, carrying a gun and somehow got spooked when the kid decided to say hey, quit following me im getting intimidated. Yes it is his right to carry a gun, no it is not his right to chase someone down with that gun. Logically, and i will repeat this through out this post, if someone is following you in their car, and then on foot you will be upset, scared/intimidated. So it was Trayvon who decided to stand his ground and fend off a would be attacker. A gun will always beat barehands, and Zimmerman WILLINGLY put himself in the situation, and WILLINGLY stalked this kid. With said evidence, the jury got the right verdict. But this case is a moral sham.

wat

after reviewing this thread, i see that i missed the obvious. don't call and ask a woman for her advice when crazy crackas are following you.

interesting. there's a Wikipedia page for "Shooting of Trayvon Martin", but there isn't one for Autumn Pasquale. wonder why that is. maybe child protection laws?

that is an awful story, dibs :(

(i googled)

probably. i dunno. might just be par for the course in the 25 mile circle that i live in.

Trumper elaborated on the first part of my post, which should solve most of the first half of your post. The part about MSNBC showing his dead body was merely to illustrate the callousness of a TV news agency suddenly screening a picture of a dead body, right as the trial over the death of the former owner of that body was winding down.

As for the rest of your quote, it seems that you have strong feelings about this case, which may or may not be clouding your judgement. What I am going to say here is that, given the facts in this case, what Zimmerman did was legal, while what Treyvon Martin did was not. 6 other women agree to that fact. I am also going to say that both parties did stupid things, and one of them is now dead because of it.

As to the transcript you posted a link to, it clearly shows the dispatcher telling Zimmerman ONE TIME that "we don't need you to do that", in reference to him following Treyvon. The "police" did NOT tell Zimmerman to stop following him multiple times. Going by the transcript, it appears Zimmerman began heading back towards his vehicle, but that's not mentioned there.

Also, do you really expect us to give up our right to bear arms just because one kid died at the hands of what could have been an overzealous neighborhood watchman? If Zimmerman would not have had that gun, he would probably have been the one that ended up dead, or at least with an altered life. And we would not be having this conversation on this thread, being our Obama-loving media would not have reported it, our Department of Justice would not have helped inflame racial tensions in the state just to have the trial in the first place, and no one would have heard a peep from the Racebaiting Black Leaders (Al Sharpton, Jessee Jackson, etc) who make their living off of dividing races and causing racial tensions where none should be present.

anyone that says trayvon martin attacked george zimmerman is either a racist or has been misled

were you there to see what happened?

http://www.theonion.com/...rida-state-lottery,33139/

I guess you think they were having sex. GZ wasnt down though, he was forced into the catchers position when clearly he wanted to pitch. no means no. Either way TM had it coming.

Wow. Just wow. This thread contains some of the most idiotic and mentally challenged people and opinions in all the universe.

I have lost all cognitive functions from reading it.

Well you joined in so welcome fellow window licker.

but the woman said that trayvon was beating up Zimmerman because he was a gay rapist. are you saying that she is a racist and trayvon misled her?

oh. that's how face-eating zombies are created. and here i was thinking that it was caused by marijuana ingestion.

anyone who says either of them attacked first is an idiot.

Zimmerman would have ended up dead if he hadn't had a gun? Are you serious? If he didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't have kept following the damn KID(caps for emphasis on the fact that it was a grown man following a kid). Or at the least, he would have announced himself and his intentions, maybe stated that he had already called the police, and wouldn't have felt empowered by the lethal weapon in his damn fist.

kid? 94% of the way to being an adult American citizen.

I can't know this for sure, but from everything I've read Zimmerman's story seems fairly plausible. And in his story, Martin attacks him.

So I'm just curious what makes you feel so strongly that I've been misled and/or am racist.

A grown, 28 year old man was following a 17 year old high school kid. Yes, he was a kid.

Please note that I didn't say child.

a 6 foot tall, 250 lbs kid?

Why are people trying to use age to justify or unjustify (if that's even a word) the actions of what may have happened that night? Yes, age is a pretty decent indicator of one's mental maturity, but in certain age ranges, it has very little bearing on one's physical maturity. Some "kids" physically mature faster and grow faster than others. I can believe that Treyvon did attack George, because Treyvon was almost (in the eyes of the law) an adult (and physically built like an adult); thus, it is plausible that that happened. The fact that you said he was 17 years old and, thus, not yet a "man", only adds credibility to that.

It is also possible that George just walked up behind the "kid", shot him in the side of the chest, and then laid down on the sidewalk and repeatedly slammed his own head on the cement to try to justify his earlier action to the law. But, like you said, this was a grown, 28-year old man, so according to you, that is not likely to have happened, right?

If you step up like a man, you get handled like a man, child or not. Had tm actually been 12 or 13 like the media portrayed some of you might have a point. He was a young man that followed a path of glorified violence portrayed in the music he listened to and the lifestyle his friends live. Being a outlaw has pitfalls, like death and prison. Tm got cheated out of his prison education, his ability to intimidate others and will never be able to make it as a gangster rapper. He will never play pro sports, but that ship had already sailed long ago. Its not like he got cheated out of playing with his legos ffs.