LIpstick and Lace (#91) and Errors of My Way (#56) deleted for rules violations. Venus (#229) and Lexus CT200H (#109) still going strong.

Cool pic though http://i.imgur.com/yvnDl.png

yea that is complete bs

Unless they did suicide by cop and sent a bunch of vulgar messages... that's the only explanation I can think of

wow

http://forums.earthempires.com/...=ab-damage-low-in-primary

Don't tell the moderators that the game is broken. They'll delete you for it.

That's not even remotely true Rockman; I don't have anything to do with deletions, mainly because I don't have time; any deletions were conducted without moderator knowledge of that thread I can fairly safely say =/

qz it'd be nice if you could look into these deletions a bit. I'm not sure they are justified

the moderator notes say "AB organize KR on 229" which looks to be fairly true; I'll ask the mods what's up in this specific case.

How about organized top feeding?

2012-08-01 14:15:31 PS Lexus CT200H (#109) the reason is you (#174) 2672A (4203A)
2012-08-01 14:14:33 PS Lexus CT200H (#109) the reason is you (#174) 3424A (5223A)
2012-08-01 14:06:42 PS Venus (#229) the reason is you (#174) 4403A (6503A)

#229 was O-Leeching, made the attack and then had #109 attack twice.

It's clearly 2 countries organized and working together against another 2 countries.

That was clearly organized, and those two organize for hits like that all the time. That's the only reason LIpstick and Errors put together ABs against them. Everyone paying attention knew the story behind it. If the mods want to delete players for organization like that, that's good, I'm in favor of it, but those were the worst possible countries to start with. They were trying to stand up for the server against that kind of activity.

They teamed up together and ran a joint abing together. That's against the rules. Problem is the other guys play as a team too, just less obvious so they can get away with it. I'm definitely glad these two guys sacrifice themselves to take out some cheaters that wouldn't be deleted though.

Right. If they're going to delete for it, I understand. But the only people who have been deleted for it are the ones policing the server and dealing with those who are getting away with it.

These guys didn't get deleted two rounds ago when I reported them:
2012-04-04 03:12:53 NM EGG WARS 2012 (#32) Incha (#26) 1311A
2012-04-04 02:31:13 CM EGG WARS 2012 (#32) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:31:09 CM EGG WARS 2012 (#32) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:30:53 EM EGG WARS 2012 (#32) Incha (#26) 65179MU
2012-04-04 02:30:50 EM EGG WARS 2012 (#32) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:12 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:11 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 944A
2012-04-04 02:29:10 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:08 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:07 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 944A
2012-04-04 02:29:05 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 944A
2012-04-04 02:29:04 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:03 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:02 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:01 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:29:00 NM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 944A
2012-04-04 02:28:51 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:51 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 546B 29387 C
2012-04-04 02:28:50 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 546B 29388 C
2012-04-04 02:28:49 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 546B 29390 C
2012-04-04 02:28:47 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) 546B 29394 C
2012-04-04 02:28:46 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:45 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:44 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:43 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:39 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 02:28:37 CM Problem child (#67) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:55:26 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:55:25 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 64144MU
2012-04-04 01:55:23 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 64726MU
2012-04-04 01:55:22 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 65313MU
2012-04-04 01:55:21 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 65907MU
2012-04-04 01:55:20 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:55:14 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 66508MU
2012-04-04 01:55:13 EM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:55:07 NM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:55:04 NM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:57 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:56 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:55 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:54 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 591B 29678 C
2012-04-04 01:54:52 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 591B 29685 C
2012-04-04 01:54:51 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:51 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:50 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:49 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) DH
2012-04-04 01:54:43 CM Bentville (#330) Incha (#26) 591B 30406 C
2012-04-04 01:04:16 PS Incha (#26) Bentville (#330) 394A (834A)

bug didn't get deleted last round when I reported it. He admitted he offered his land to friends, and at the same time, he kept attacking to get more land.

2012-06-17 05:37:14 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 380A (645A)
2012-06-17 05:37:11 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 393A (666A)
2012-06-17 05:37:08 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 469A (910A)
2012-06-17 05:37:03 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 487A (945A)
2012-06-17 05:36:52 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 508A (982A)
2012-06-17 00:59:47 PS bug (#226) iMikeeLand (#150) 1579A (2519A)
2012-06-16 05:34:49 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 179A (227A)
2012-06-16 05:34:47 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 249A (349A)
2012-06-16 05:34:44 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 255A (358A)
2012-06-16 05:32:57 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 379A (647A)
2012-06-16 05:32:48 PS Beelzebub (#5) bug (#226) 392A (670A)

And the two players, Venus and Lexus, coordinated a top feed this round and didn't get deleted (as well as Lexus letting Venus use his jets all round). And they did the exact same thing a previous round and didn't get deleted:

2012-04-28 08:31:02 PS Vice Viscount Valentino (#88) Happy New Year 2012 (#219) 6187A (9140A)
2012-04-28 08:12:45 PS Power of Darkness (#125) Happy New Year 2012 (#219) 3242A (4790A)
2012-04-04 00:10:49 PS Power of Darkness (#125) Happy New Year 2012 (#219) 5155A (7594A)

Same two guys.

Same two guys in Tournament:

PS Aug 13, 01:32 On Call 36 Hours (#29) BOWSER (#41) DH
SS Aug 13, 14:41 Liu Yi Fei (#42) BOWSER (#41) 234 A
PS Aug 13, 14:43 Liu Yi Fei (#42) BOWSER (#41) 340 A
PS Aug 13, 19:34 BOWSER (#41) On Call 36 Hours (#29) DH
PS Aug 14, 10:34 On Call 36 Hours (#29) BOWSER (#41) 616 A
PS Aug 14, 15:36 BOWSER (#41) On Call 36 Hours (#29) 670 A

I'll put in my 2 cents:

So, if those ABs were 10 minutes apart (like the topfeeds), the deletions wouldn't have occurred? This is extremely arbitrary. What is the break off point where it would be considered organized versus not organized? 5 minutes?

<-- does not mod the game

One of the issues is that we don't have our moderators viewing a news feed 24/7; they rely almost entirely upon people reporting players, or of course people playing from the same location heh.


If you see behaviour that should be "against the rules", I encourage you to report it, as it has a MUCH higher likelihood of being addressed.

No it doesn't, especially or servers modded by galleri. I say you review her. Do an opinion poll on your mods to find out their effectiveness. When was the last time you did a review of your mods? I guarantee you the issue is galleri. I'll go back and find some of her comments on past blatant cheating.

You have to admit that there is something seriously wrong when the admin pays more attention to a server than the server mod.

I guarantee you the issue is with the modding.

crest, how many times have you reported VivaNick and his ally in Tournament server?

Except qz, all those cases blid mentioned 6 posts up WERE reported. Blid reported the first 2 cases listed, I reported the 3rd case listed (as did a couple of others).

Galleri had confirmed at that time (I asked on IRC) that after the "spirit of the game" rule was removed, it wasn't technically a deletable offense, but it is entirely up to martian.

Edit: I even saved a copy of my 471 word report, which I can resend to you if you like.

Does galleri mod the Tourny server too? I stopped wasting my time a long while back.

Review your mods qz. It seems no one is responsible for modding the mods. What sort of operational effectiveness do you hope to achieve without periodic reviews for job performance?

Job performance? Operational effectiveness?

In a free, text-based online game?

Really?

But you reported it every set for awhile.

imo, the solution isn't to NOT delete for this stuff, or to ignore it. don't let that be the takeaway message... the solution is to enforce it properly...

who are dustfp and Hawk anyway?

Free or not, if something is worth doing, do it well.

Well if you want more moderation, we need more volunteers to moderate =/ Keeping in mind you can't play the servers you moderate. Find me some more people who don't play these servers who are willing to moderate, and we can probably get some more moderation going on heh; the spirit of the rules isn't enforced entirely *primarily* because it's extremely difficult without lots of moderators looking actively all the time.

qz is it possible to say alternate sets moderating and playing? I'd be happy to give away half my sets to moderate, but I'd prefer not to all the time.

The Primary forum isn't very active and this issue has been actively discussed here. If the mods can just read this forum like our admin is doing, imagine how effective they would be. They would know this issue was brought up 2 weeks ago when it 1st started. My guess is the mod has not read anything here this month. And there are only 2 active threads, this one incuded.

From: galleri
To: Chewi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Clarification on primary rules
Date: Apr 5th, 03:26
Message Body:

It should be wrong and unfortunatly the "spirit of the game" rules were removed after all the players complained. Sorry :(
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Something like what #330, #67, and #32 are doing. They're obviously working together.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------

Ok explain what you mean a bit better.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Is it against the rules for multiple countries to team up and work together?

I'm glad my country could be of benefit for good conversation yet again in primary :)

an interesting thought.... it could lead to some conflicts of interest potentially though, no?

I guess it possibly could, but on the flip side if say I did this with someone else (alternating sets) then you'd guarantee a mod pretty in tune with what's going on on the primary server. Heck I wouldn't even mind if some of the guys on here (afaik, oldman, jedioda just to name a few) modded and played the same set.

There is a decent community of players here who I think could hold the mod (whether it's me or someone else) up to scrutiny.

Uhm...There's not such thing as a KR with ABs, unless now ABs kill population or destroy land and im not aware of it :p

I think it's a good idea! First, you get a respected player who should be a good mod, and secondly, like he said, it's somebody who is up to date with the goings on of the server. Conflict of interest? If he was playing the same set he was modding, maybe, but I trust him plenty enough to believe he wouldn't go around deleting people who attacked him the previous set or something, that's pretty far-fetched.

Must be a PDM mod :P

I wasn't done. It was 5am this morning when I did my moderating, and I had been up for 30 hours due to family bs, storms and so on....my patience level was beyond was itself. Since I am a volunteer, I choose sleep first, and then I was going to wake up (which is now) and look over the other one.

Also I don't review the news. I was sent two player tips. One is the deletion and there is another I am about to look at.
If you all feel that something is going on........once again...like the other 1 billion times martian and everyone else has told you ..... REPORT IT.

LMFAO

Tried that many times. IT DOESN'T WORK.

+10.

I'm responsible for modding the mods. There are also multiple threads on multiple boards stating "IF THERE IS AN IN GAME ISSUE PLEASE MESSAGE A MOD DIRECTLY. ALTERNATIVELY YOU CAN MESSAGE ME INSITE (or on IRC) REGARDING MODERATING QUESTIONS/COMPLAINTS ISSUES WITH ANY MOD". Also use the in game reporting tool.

I'm not responsible for people not reading the multiple announcements/posts concerning this.


I also sincerely hope that there isn't a post on some alliance message board encouraging people to create these situations just to draw attention to this issue.

++martian

Would you like to comment on the situation?

I'm looking into it as well as some other cases in primary.
My preference is to continue to use the game reporting tool rather than the forums as it makes it easier for me to track what goes on. Every time you report someone, it goes into the db and is stored permanently along with the actions (if any) of which ever moderator decided to address it.

I will say that the number of countries getting reported in any given set (for reasons other than offensive country name) is very low and about 3/4's of the ones reported get deleted.
A lot of the others that are "suspicious" would only be cheaters if they were basically an intelligence agency level hacker with a rather large budget or have superhuman powers.

My own personal opinion is the best solution to this is to reduce this issue via game mechanics. Possibly removing special attacks/aggressive spy ops and limiting along with some other potential changes. However that's just my opinion right now and by no means should that be taken as "this is what is actually going to happen".

I also will not feel compelled to investigate anything simply because you post it on these boards.

In order to ensure the integrity of the process, any kind of reporting should be done via pm.

Last time I PM'd you (lengthy message about land farms), you didn't even write back or acknowledge you got the msg. :(

Anyway something big like this, everyone is interested to know. Previously people got away with all kinds of coordinated activity, like that missile party posted above. What's the policy?

Neither blid nor I was deleted. We're just concerned because the server is being wrecked by people like Vivanick, and the players have had to police themselves because the mods would not do anything about players using the same tactics that Chewi and another person got deleted for. The people who were deleted did not start these threads.

This is a clear case of selective enforcement of the rules, and even worse, it is being enforced against those who got tired of it being repeatedly abused against people playing legit, and rose up to take care of cheaters.

Quite clearly, the moderators are PROTECTING CHEATERS and DELETING INNOCENT PLAYERS.

It's not just the players who were deleted that are upset by this. Many people were cheering on those who finally stood up to the cheaters. And we're quite pissed off that cheating doesn't get you deleted, but standing up to cheating does get you deleted.

What type of message does this send, where the moderators defend cheaters from those who rise up to fight them after the cheaters are given free reign for months without being deleted despite numerous attempts reporting them? This sends the message that you are trying to fluff the game up.

You're confirming what I wrote weeks ago - there is an active effort to fluff the game up.

I added a in game report just for you martian :)

You mean like suggesting that offensive allies be removed on individual servers? We've had many many people request that on the B&S board, to no avail.

We've suggested changes, we've reported players, that didn't work. So now we fight fire with fire. And those fighting the cheaters get deleted. Whereas those who've cheated for months against innocent legit players are not deleted.

man you guys do a whole lot of complaining

Well, instead of complaining, we tried fighting them ingame. And got deletions for it. So, if we get deleted for fighting cheaters with the same tactics they use, then complaining is what we're forced to do.

Changes are not trivial or quick to make; have some bloody patience for once heh

HAHA! +10

+100 w00t!