if I were running LaF, I'd be setting up the kill runs now, because if I were running elysium, I'd be saving turns and buying tanks.

Then why even bother posting your farming policy, or non-farming policy, if it doesnt apply to the tag you are taling about.

I think LaF is driving down participation more from people like me, who enjoy the game and are in a tag with good protection but don't have the time to find the 5 nonpacted countries on the server before laf farms them down to 10A/hit. Smaller tags just need to go all commie for a few sets and earn some respect.

Although, to say pacting with laf will stop them from trying to farm you is obviously a joke.

H4, stop with the "two hits" BS, you know that never is actually observed.

I would suggest that there aren't many alliances around right now that can effectively retal 34 hits in a 72 hour period.

Heh.
I agree with both sides.

I hope to see Ely doing someting to help out their situation soon. It occured to me that they are a part of that new small alliance coalition. That doesn't mean they need to take someone head on in war, but it is a bigger pool to draw resources from.

No, you just AB a country 22x over a single landgrab because you suck too much to retal.

You are a moron Detmer, and you whine and cry and parade around pretending to take the 'moral high ground' when in reality you are just a child acting out because you can't compete.

Every alliance is assembled differently, the majority of laffers find fun in the game in two ways,
a: trying to win netgaining competitions be they individual or as an alliance.
and b: the alliance itself.

You say you have fun all exploring, good for you. Not everyone does. Asking laf to stop trying to put up top finishes is like asking sol to stop warring. The game constantly adapts, if you dont like the way it is adapting you can leave, but its not because of lafs grabing that you would be leaving, and frankly, if laf were to stop landgrabing, you would get a much larger number of people leaving the game than if they continue to grab.

It used to be that warmongers dictated the path of the server, and netgainers would whine about having to war, currently netgainers do and people complain about being landgrabed and not being able to do anything about it, it will change again in time but if you want to blame someone for being landgrabed blame yourself, i could teach someone that had never played the game before in under an hour how to retal the best players on this server all reset long.

I'd like to see you do that. In Ely's tag while leaving any and all negotiations with other alliances to their leadership. Play in their tag under a new name for a full reset and if you succeed in making them retal capable without using any outside influence I'll give you 15k a off my country the following reset. :)

SS: even when every country in their tag was taking 7 hits every couple of days from your alliance?

In the spirit of the game in seeing an alliance progress rather than die, and perhaps humbling one side or the other, I truely mean it if you're up for the challenge.

PDM is doing most of the complaining on this thread, my comments have been directed at them.

Ely is the only "organized tag" that isn't at least on the "will retal" status I discussed above. The reason why should be obvious.

Ely is too small for this server, I'm sorry but thats how it is. They should have stayed merged in rage or merged wherever else and externally recuited for a couple resets and then come back when they were 15+

Don't say it can't be done because PDM just did it this round.

SS makes a lot of good points as well.

I'm not affiliated with PDM (:

LaF....what are you going to do when all your non pacted alliances disappear because of your policies of toughen up or leave?

Why do you guys want to ruin the game for so many when this game already sucks?

really...what is the point of being FIRST EVERY set....it is like the Chicago Bulls Basketball Team. They owned the 1990's and after awhile it does get boring. Who is going to win....LaF

You say retal all our hits...how are smaller tags, really, going to retal every hit your members make, it isn't possible. The big retaliers will eventually have to do PS thus taking their military out of commission. While you are, for the most part, 2X-3X the size of most of the alliances here on this sever

You say you want to be the BEST...but when it is mostly LaF competing against LaF...what is the BEST?

when you are competing for rank you aren't just competing with other alliances but with each other.

I don't understand, are we not suppose to try to grab land then, simply because nobody in your alliance ever took the time to learn a decent techer?

Maybe you should try to lobby the admins to take SS and PS out of the game all together then, I mean whats the point of having them there hmm?

Perhaps your collective leadership should try pulling their heads out of their solar-emitting backsides, and take a look around at the rest of the server. Or what's left of it.

By my last count, there are less than 600 countries left in this server. This server has over 100 less countries this set than we had at the end of last set. Alliances that were once feared and respected for their political acumen are being treated as yet more farmland for the mighty LaF netgaining machine. Add to LaF's new 48-hour retal policy, coupled with the impossibility of these smaller alliances to effectively retal within the smaller window due to the large amounts of farming going on, and you have a game far worse than what Jolt could have ever envisioned.

What others have already asked in this thread: What happens when there are no untaggeds or tiny clans to farm? Which alliance will LaF move onto next? Will FA talks keep LaF from getting land from someone? From what I'm reading in this thread, I seriously doubt it.

LaF, as well as other alliances, need to accept the fact that, no, they aren't always going to be able to build better countries each set at the expense of others. If LaF wants their precious server to be able to support them in the future, then it is LaF that will need to make some changes to the way they see smaller alliances.

Back in the days when we had over 10k countries in this server, it would be perfectly acceptable for LaF, or any other alliance, to take this course of action on smaller alliances. There was an endless supply of free land for the taking then.

Not today. For whatever reasons other people have speculated upon, we now only have ~590 countries left in this server. LaF's current policy of 'take advantage of the 5-man clan with no commies' isn't going to work here anymore. If this continues to be the case, then this server won't sustain anybody. And LaF will be left, all by itself, on the top of its personal scores sheet. All of the Facebook apps we have pointing to this game won't do us any good if every new/small alliance gets farmed to oblivion. Neither will LaF's logical processes of "they should have had commies to retal, so let's take all their land".

Smaller alliances, or alliances down on their luck, need to be nurtured back to health in these trying times. It's not just LaF that is hurting for land; it's everyone else that wants to put up a good finish at the end of every set. If we all accept the fact that we'll need to hit the explore button a lot more often in this server now, then smaller alliances will get the chance to grow. LaF needs to be reminded that there are other people playing on this server, and, due to the fact this server is so empty, their actions affect the other players a lot harsher than they did when this game was actually worth playing.

Now, I'm not blaming LaF for historical events that's put this game and this server where it is now. Nor am I holding only LaF responsible for what must change if this game is to have any chance of surviving. Being this is a thread directed at LaF, I figure that it's LaF that could use my advice the most here. The fact is, we ALL need to take on a different mindset, and use other methods to get ahead in this server. Perhaps manipulating the market so that your clanmates are the only ones who benefit may be a viable, alternate strategy.

I do know this: I'm not playing a country this set. Mostly due to real life issues, but then I'm reminded of the possibility that this game may not be very fun to play in the near future. If I ever get the feeling that there's no hope left for this game, then I'll be one of the thousands of players that have left this game due to alliance policies and everyone else's inability to see beyond their own faces. Then, someone else will have to develop these forums.

Nuke: Put the login down on the bottom where you post...

THANKS!

I retalled just fine. With a country that lost turns since I was on vacation. You are just bitter because my hits don't fit in with your views of what are appropriate retals. You act like you'd rather I had retalled you for 900 acres than destroyed a few thousand buildings. I know that isn't true and you are just self pitying because you didn't see it coming. Everyone has fun in this game in slightly different ways. I am sorry that our two ways aren't congruent. I am still having fun. I hope you are too.

hahahahahahaha ROLFMAOHELICOPTER!

I personally think a balance needs to be struck while the server is in such small conditions. You can't in good conscience ask Laf to stop landgrabbing you, however I think it would be good for the server if we limited and enforced grabs on legit tags. This could possibly have the negative effect of making bottom feeding of untaggeds worse, however this is the alliance server so meh.

Ely currently has 5 active countries? that's barely enough to make a team on the other server.

If you think about it... would a five country tag have even been considered an alliance a few years back? helll no.

If you want tag protection you need a larger group, Also you need to try to have atleast a few play retallers.

Any alliance that has started up has taken a while to move up from being "land farm status"

Take CWG or RED from back in the day, when I first started they were basically landfarms, but they gradually legitimized themselves as alliances. Every group starts small, it's what you do to build from there.

However, if you want to be considered an alliance I'd recommend having more than 5 members.

If not, you might as well be untagged.

Heh, when some big alliances did this to DBD when we attempted to play in the Alliance server we ended up ruining as many of their countries as we possibly could. It was great fun but didnt really help all that much. And we did have retallers early on but it doesnt help when you are that small as you get hit so many times you simply cant keep up with the retals (plus the retals are being ignored and just hit back even more)

My recommendation is to get a lot of jets and tech and stay small. Then wait a week or two and then attack their fatties that are sitting with low defence and stocking. That way they are more likely to regret farming you in the first place, but if nothing else youll end up having got all your land back and probably some extra as well.

(Of course youll probably die as well but its good fun anyway, its not really anything I would recommend if you want to seriously netgain now or in the future)

i've always played in small tags, first rule of retaling when u have too many hits to retal, pick the grabs where the retal is going to hurt the most

rule 2 retals dont have to be a PS, a SS will be fine, as long as u do a successful retal and u get within 70-100% of the land taken

rule 3 dont whine it makes the farming alliance farm u more and others may join in

rule 4 talk to the alliances farming you and talk to them in a friendly way , make them like u

thats about it, you are a small tag and farming is part of being a small alliance,

oh rule 5 always send a polite retal message and dont be rude

The problem is, H4x0r is making it seem like people are fighting each other to play this game. That's not the issue. With the dwindling numbers, we need to try and keep as many people as possible. If there ARE people who want to just do as good as possible while the game is still going, then what's the point? "Whoo, I came out on top in a game with a few hundred other people!". Amazing.

Everyone should be focused on getting the player base growing, even it means sacrificing a few sets of, well, anything really. Otherwise, all the time and effort of keeping Earth going will be in vain. I'm not trying to directly point to LaF here, but as the biggest alliance in the game, and the one who seems to set the most policies in-game, they're kind of the example everyone else is following.

People who can't even run proper retal countries wants LaF to stop grabbing because they can't retal.

Next up, they'll ask for the explore button be taken away from LaF as well,

Woohoo

To be harsh, 4 commies and 1 techer or 3 commies and 2 techers would do the job for a 5-man tag.

Anyway, I saw a LaFer ABing them though, which doesn't sound right at all. He also RoRed ely.

the 34 grabs, and i am sure it is more by now - was by a few players, hell 1 guy RoR us 6 hits in less then 2 min. by your rules a couple are marked for detha. We are not running away from this or the game. I just want to show how you say one thing and allow another.

and again you don't see things clearly, we didn't burn bridges, we made them. for who ever said that - too lazy

look guys, i started to read the posts but rather then wasting my time i am only going to say when all those people complaining were on top, they did the exact same crap whether they admitt it or not, Collab would be the big bad wolf if they started hitting elysium too, which in time they probably will.. so either quit, join a bigger tag or go into the reset with intentions of only ruining peoples resets then you get the last laugh but knowing they are complaining about you on the boards and hating on the suiciders.


thats all there is too this arguement. ok maybe the last thing you could do is all run commies and rape on retals all set, besides after 5 hits you basically lose nothing, fluff gs yourself, its a cheap tactic but it will let ya build.. theres ways outa your situation without running like pussies.

now that is all there is to this arguement.

I love how everyone keeps saying "every alliance used to do the same thing"

that was years ago when there was multies and bots and when most earth players were still in HIGH SCHOOL. The bots and multies are gone and most players are either in college, graduated from college and or married and LONG GONE

What is going on NOW is the farming of the FEW remaining vets and new players left in this game.

I want LaF to tell me this... IF....IF PDM and Ely were to disapper, who would you farm next? RAGE?

EVERY country and EVERY alliance RIGHT NOW is the life blood of this stupid server, but LaF doesn't seem to realize that. You can Landgrab to an extent, but when that landgrabbing is 30 + hits on an alliance with a smaller retal window you are making it MUCH harder for Pang, Nuke and the other admins to keep this game alive. Sure you an pick a few to retal...but guess what the 20 others you can't retal...they continue to hit you along with the other members? Why? There is a great chance they will come out ahead because they KNOW you are small and they KNOW you can't retal a majority of the hits on you

If the facebook application works GREAT, but if there are no seasoned alliances left in this sever what is the point? Those players need to go some where to learn how to play and if they create an alliance of there own, they will be farmed since they have no idea of how to play or run an alliance

If LaF wants to continue to play this game, they need to start thinking Long Term , not short term. Sacrafices have to be made, how about actually becomming something respectable and show any new players that may come in here that they are a respectable alliance. This goes for NA and any other top alliance as well

It only takes common sense to realize that ingame policies are making this game much harder to keep alive and to have fun for EVERYONE not just certain alliances

And I bet, that if this does continue LaF's members will get bored of taking the top 50 again and again and again as there will be no challange. In this game you play for 2 things, the alliance experience and the challange and fun of being top netter or warmonger. But if the challange is gone what is the point of playing? IT will eventually get boring for them

But hey don't believe me, just look at the disappearing membership base that Nuke gave, 100 less countries or so this set *shurgs* if LaF likes what they are doing cheers! Maybe next set it'll be 450 or 400 countries left as most vets have carriers now and could easily stop playing this game

BUT THEY WILL GET MORE NW SO WHO CARES!?!
amirit?

34 attacks on a 5 player clan in 48 hours cannot be retalled sustainably no matter how may commie indys you have. This is what leads to suiciding, which used to actually be a deterrant before the EE staff pulled the teeth out of suiciders. Its obvious at this point that most of LaF has come to grips that EE is ecologically Easter Island and they are all dueling it out among themselves to see who gets to build the last big statue.

If you cannot see the connection between Elysiums fate and their participation in the botched attempt at forming a coaltion, then you were not paying attention in class. The Dons just gave Ely a big kiss in the prison yard, in plain view of all the other aspiring coalition members.

I don't know why TGD is making the argument about PDM...

they've started to rise to the challenge and start running better countries, which is what we want to see.

Ely's been in their own tailspin for several years -- ever since their IX wars, so don't blame LaF for the decline of alliances which were already on the decline.

Name one alliance besides LaF that has not been? We are not really blaming LaF for their decline, we are blaming LaF for consistantly being the first vulture to start dining on the still kicking corpse. LaF puts an end to any hope of resurrection before most tags even realize they are dying.

NukE, I think I love you. Marry me. :p

i think we should have another DR applying between 2 countries making it less desirable to do a high number of hits on a certain country in a certain time period

perhaps at different levels in different times

even if most of the harm war off in 18 hours it could help

if you need to put another DR on a whole tag

No. Added game mechanics won't deter someone from trying to exploit them. The problem isn't the game; it's in the people playing the game. Because there aren't enough players in this server for a sustainable playing experience, there won't be enough checks/balances for people or alliances that take advantage of others when they can.

LaF, as well as other alliances, need to voluntarily cede some of their power, authority, sovereignty, whatever they call it, and step out of the war room for a while. Better to do things voluntarily than involuntarily...which will pretty much be a sure thing in the near future because, well, if the current circumstances persist, there probably won't be anyone left for LaF to farm.

You are seriously going to reference happenings in a completely different server/game to what is going on here now?

I would think with the time and financial investment you have in this game, you would try to find a solution instead of trying to justify what LaF is doing.

Unless of course your goal is for LaF to be left alone here on the server to play with themselves every reset.

25% of the countries in LaF tag are new recruits, don't talk as if we are a group of big bad wolfs that doesn't take in new cubs.

I don't know about other alliances, but here at LaF, we stress on teaching and development of our newbies, and those aren't just new recruits of current players, some are totally new to the game.

Err... I think you're missing the point. lol Having new members isn't gonna do you any good whatsoever when you're the only ones left on the server.

Let's all farm LaF!!!!

/runs and hides

Pretty sure some people in LaF would quit the game if there was no grabbing going on.

Again with the bullfluff reference to your great spirit of magnanimity. What are "better countries" - is there an objective rubric we should be aware of? Please, release some LaF public service announcement to that effect and enlighten us. Better yet, write out a manifesto for how you'd like us to run our alliances.

Do you mean better defended or countries with more offensive power? I'm sure you'll say something about it being situational, but the fact of the matter is that set after set LaF's response to running grossly underdefended countries is always that it's all about playing the netgaining endgame, minimizing expenses, etc.

The truth is that we had to respond to your large scale systematic aggression by creating retallers out of netting countries, even though we already had an adequate number of retal-capable countries to deal with everyday grabs. So I guess LaF actually made our countries a little 'worse' in terms of netting endgame, which is the standard LaF preaches as far as how this game is meant to be played. Thanks for that! GG!

I'm sure they simply mean less grabbing chewi. No grabbing would take a big chunk of the game away ;) and then annoying clans like imag couldnt topfeed anyone anymore

From listening to Sir Balin you'd think that retals against LaF didn't yield any acres.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why what LaF does is worse than some warring alliance randomly FSing another alliance. I've been waiting for a over month at this point. Should I give up?

lol, I'd quit the game if there's no grabbing.

I think they are both bad to a point ;) both should reign themselves in a little bit at least. Obviously not too much or they wouldnt enjoy the game anymore

So what can be taken from this thread is that the oldest alliance in the game doesnt look into the future, and retals dont detter people that want to win, because apparently they dont hurt.

Regarding Ely:

Everyone over in that camp (aka Ely, PDM, Imag, Neo etc) seem to be forgetting that I offered them a uNAP for this reset. They rejected my offer.

It takes great odacity to outright reject my pact offer, and then complain when we find your countries to be appealing landgrabs.

I mean you had a choice to either accept the pact, or run countries that would scare our players away from grabbing you (for example, see EEVIL, SOF, Monsters, etc). You have done neither.

I have a lot more to say about this issue in general, but it is going to have to wait until I am not at work.

You should give up because you already know the answer to that question.

Ely did quite well at Alliance-server away from big tags like Laf etc but then Alliance was changged to team and Council to Alliance and after that it was downhill, few sets we got pact from Laf and did fine but then no pact from Laf and results can be seen on last and this set.