Naww thenkee's Balin! I will miss you!

I can see why you did what you did thatguy

I haven't played in 3 years so I didn't know how bad it had become

LaF should be worried about being landgrabbed and trippled grabbed just like the small defenseless countries they 100X grab :)

lol, i love how you're going on about "whats owed to them and then some" the amount of reps laf accepted is laughable it wont come close to compensating for the losses meh, if i was still playing i would of told you to pay almost double what was accepted meh

I hope that is a joke..or you have not seen reps owed.

Earth Watcher: stfu

We aren't pacted, so we aren't paying for lost production. If they want a pact, they can accept my terms or get nothing and deal with what's happened.

and if this was to come out even, Pang would lose more players in this game

He should be worried about keeping players
not losing them because they have to become landfarms :)

GREAT for LaF (for 1 set)

BAD for Pang and his game

He might want to use some common sense

and it is LaF's fault for not keeping any defense. If you want to run a 50K acre 100K turret country, you DESERVE to be landgrabbed especally when you probably already hit another batch of countries a few 100X's each

like I stated, Pang needs to see what is important moving forward with this game

ohh and btw I wouldn't care...why BECAUSE IT IS A GAME!

it resets every 3 months, guess what??? My good country was killed this set (in a war not through someone landgrabbing me) and before that an NA member kept retaling my retals and other NA members were hitting me. Don't see me crying up a storm :)

Funny thing is, if LaF had accepted the terms I proposed, they would be getting close to compensation as to what they would have got with their terms.

1)yes we would expect proper reps to get us to the point we would have been prior to suicide...Potential is debatable

2)even.. agreed.. much better at the end of reps then it would have been given the same time frame without suicide..no(note.MUCH)

3)the suicide is being accepted as our responsibility..and i doubt you can name one tag that has not had a rogue player

Anyways, PDM has never really asked for lost production, so the point is moot.

Dude, PDM can't have been at fault it they didn't know it was going to happen. They can be politically responsible, but there's no way the fault can be attributed to them, you can't profile new members in such a way that you'll be able to forsee the potential for spontaneous landgrabbing spree's. It's the individual LaF countries fault far more than Paradigm's for running high land low defense in a game built around attacking one another for land. You can't just have complete faith in tag protection.

Some of those countries were sitting on over 20k acres with less than 1mil total defense. They can't blame anyone but themselves (and maybe myself..) for their lost land.

agreed but large alliances are special

they can farm away, but if they get tripple tapped ohhh nooo, it is the end of the world

Ironic isn't it? :)

would LaF pay back the same in reps that they are demanding?
I think not. anyone else would be lucky to get back half what they demand.
would your members pay reps to all the countries they farm into the ground all set long?
what LaF lost is minor compared to what LaF rapes from new/untagged players every single set.
maybe if LaF changed their attitudes towards the game a little, things might get better.

do you really think that a faceobook app is going to help earth pang, if LaF's members promptly farm every single new player to the game from it straight into the ground?
people will simply get pissed off and leave... again.

I am one of the people saying screw the reps, and if you don't like it, kill us.
sure you can do it, and to be honest even if we were still fully prepped you could do it fairly easily, but it still screws your netting set :)

In LaF's defense, before Parallax asked for anything, I said something along the lines of:

You can have 125% l:l (instead of 100% because I wanted them to take notice that we want to improve relations) and stock lost and military destroyed.

Mainly, I said this right off the bat because I was sure they were going to ask for more, so I wanted to pre-empt an hour-long convo by just offering something straight up.

So what they would have asked for, I'm not sure.

lol, Laf is looking for love and not finding much . . . again

I have to hand it to you guys though, you are the most hated alliance in the game and have been for so long I cannot even recall who might be in second place. Yet, here you still are - as strong as ever.

Machiavelli was right, it's better to be feared than loved.

I must say I'm pleasantly surprised that there aren't LaFers coming out of the woodwork to trash PDM. That's something that happens far too much on these boards.

mmm

we're looking at making the game more balanced in a number of areas....

i don't know why you're acting like we're not, scode... you should know better than that.

I'm going to add wasting developer time to the list of bannable offenses!

Probably an easy 40m heh

Thatguy. Thanks for hitting an all explore country. It isnt like I was out there doing a million attacks on untagged. If you wish to be a douche go elsewhere. Hitting people who dont do fluff to others is stupid.

I didn't check every country's history, I just picked 10 fatty's who were inadequately defended.

Anything was inadequate. You got through goku's defenses so why bother buying up more defense to stop you? You have proven yourself to be a fluff though. Congrats?

Goku was an exception as I stated before, the rest of your countries deliberately skimped on their defense to keep their costs down and raise their stockpiles. There's a clear difference between country's who are worried about being hit and prepare a defense large enough for attacks on them to more trouble than the gains re worth, and country's that take it for granted that they can rely on tag protection to totally neglect any serious defense in an attack-oriented game.

HHHhHhHhHh!½½½½½!!!

Hey btw man, you suck. Can you post a picture of you so i can make an voodoo doll of you?

Earthwatcher: I love fluff.

LaFinglolrik: Here you go, voodoo until your little heart's content!

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4585/32513312.png

LOL @ image

LOL@IMAGE. HAHAHA! :)

Well my voodoo is good. Thats why i didnt get hit :). I was one of the fattest. And i had worthless defense. It must be the voodoo powers. Pls give me a real picture.
And i will show you.

PDM is more worthless than i thought. First you suck at cheating. Then you suck at suiciding. And you only survived for 50 sets.

Was it Sir Balin who got aided up to the top 10 in the last 2025 set, detagged PDM, and then got knocked out of top 10? lol.

I'm not giving one cent in reps, and if TAN agrees to some stupid payback I'll just quit this game again.

Thatguy is a fluff for doing what he did.

That is sort of correct. I was hovering at rank 11, one of my allies FAed me 2-3m NW without my foreknowledge or consent. Thankfully, your compatriots in the last known bastion of in-game justice CDed me out of the top 10 in the last 30 seconds to put up another LaFer.

Obviously FAing isn't cheating, though FAing into the top 10 is certainly lame and I don't condone it. I was, as always, just so appreciative of LaF's dedication to keeping the t10 clear of those who receive FA, benefit from market manipulation, or farm their own clanmates. Except of course when it's someone you're pacted to, or yourselves.

PDM = major fail at cheating, major fail at suiciding, and laughably has only been in existence for 9 years.

hitting LaF is kind of like hitting America....

usually the first surprise attack works to cause damage, but after that, they decimate you until you wish you hadn't hit them in the first place :p

So you also fund insurgents in Nicaragua, rebels in Afghanistan (then kill them), prop up a brutal dictator (then kill him), support TWO apartheid regimes, save France too many times, then whine and ask why everyone hates you?

I didn't make the connection that LaF's policies align with the US, just that when you go out of your way to mess with the US, they usually rock your world in the end. I know that LaF would rather sit and net in peace.... but it doesn't always happen that way.

and the rebels in Afghanistan were allies of the US during the Soviet-Afghan war, who then began harbouring terrorists that eventually attacked America... I don't see anything wrong with the Afghan war, Canada was part of that too, along with all of NATO, and we most certainly support our troops in that theater.

You should make the connection.

LaF, like America, whines why everyone hates them when the answer is glaringly obvious.

(P.S. It's not because we're jealous of your netting and freedom)

I don't think anyone in LaF is whining about why everyone hates them... you're just making that up, as far as I can tell. We're just wondering why PDM isn't treating this issue with the respect and effort it deserves? You guys didn't run the KR on your own suicider, so like I said to you privately... we'll count up the reps for that and send you a bill :p

Again, all we've been saying is that PDM doesn't control it's members and doesn't work well to clean up the consequences.

Maybe you should understand that it's not our fault for simply existing, it's your fault for consistently fostering a culture inside PDM that it's OK to do this kind of stuff. Even when we had a pact that included lost production reps, you refused to pay it. Your clanmates were killed and farmed numerous times for that, because of your own personal beliefs. You then had to come cry to us for a pact before PDM folded... whining about how "laf is the big bad bully" when all we did was respond to your members attacking us and your alliance not making it right.

The problems do not at all lie within LaF, the problems are in PDM, and it starts with TAN and trickles down from there. I hope all PDM members realize that LaF doesn't want these issues to happen -- it's TAN who does.

Wrong. The problem lays with the arrogance of LaF leaders who think they can get away with robbery, and who have gotten so comfortable drinking wine and gorging on bacon that they don't bother protecting their castles.

This is an attack-oriented game, and if you are going to count pennies, don't expect there not to be consequences or controversies. Maybe everyone else will silently allow LaF to shaft them up the posterior, but I could give a damn. Did I say "I"? I meant everyone in PDM could give a damn.

PDM doesn't mind losing a netting set because we have fun. I know it pisses you guys off mightily when even one acre is taken off of you. It is the culture within LaF and cavalier non-chalance that breeds suiciders.

SS acted like a prick and I don't play this game to get insulted over stupid stuff like that. Even Gains acted like a prick at one point. Even look back at your earlier statement in this thread that precipitated such a devolution in conversation. Do you purposefully train your FAs and leaders to foment resentment?

Ask yourself this question -- WHY do people in PDM suicide on LaF and on no one else? Why haven't we had suiciders against NA--and for the last few sets now, even while we were DPed, I was the ONLY person in PDM who liked them?

So why then? Why have there been no suiciders against NA? Why were there suiciders against no one else? It is because of LaF and your let-the-game-die attitude (farming the hell out of untags -- which could possibly be new people to the game -- is one of the most common reasons in PDM why I hear anger towards you guys. And that's rich, since it's coming from the main developer's precious alliance).

Suck it up and start looking at your own alliance if you want to place blame.

Regarding the pact after that war, don't act like you guys didn't want one either. It is funny the way you spin propaganda. You guys were just as eager to get back to your prized netting as we were to recover from 5 sets of straight war.

Also, regarding the suicider, PDM and SOL did a large chunk of the killing. So stop whining to me about that as if we did nothing. In case you didn't notice, we got maybe like 8 guys who could have even possibly touched him--and good luck getting them on together in order to run a KR.

After this, to be honest, dealing with LaF doesn't deserve respect nor effort.

You can ask ANYONE in PDM who has been holding the leash and begging people not to hit you guys. That's me. But apparently all the problems start with me.

I'm considering letting your Schadenfreudian dream come true.

hold on

you're again saying it's our fault that your member suicided us?

just trying to get this straight.

You have just basically said you don't support suiciding in the end of your post



but earlier...



Those look like two conflicting statements.... you believe the suicides on LaF are justified.... but you are fully against them?

make up your mind man.... you're only making yourselves look more like hypocrites...

You asked me if we train our leaders to foster resentment.... but we're not the ones continually CREATING issues.

Things PDM has done to LaF:
-Suicided on us a year ago, refused to pay the full amount and did not help kill the suicider; LaF would later kill PDM over the non-payment of the reps as per the terms of our pact, once the pact expired.
-PDM then attacks LaF the next set again, is completely obliterated and cries to our leaders for a pact.
-PDM took LaF off DNH this set, did not tell us, and allowed their players to begin grabbing us. They were surprised when we followed suit.
-A PDM member suicides LaF a few days ago, I was sent a message saying "you may want to kill 307 before he hits you more".... no help offered by PDM, despite the fact that 15 of the 22 live PDM countries could attack the player.
-PDM now claims the suicide was LaF's fault for a variety of reasons, ranging from defenseless countries, to arrogance, to simply existing.

Come on man... if PDM didn't keep CREATING issues with LaF, they wouldn't even be on our radar. We'd like to just net in peace, not be thrust into these sorts of stupid issues because PDM can't control its members.

Like I said numerous times, I've stopped being an active contributor to LaF leadership to focus on other things, but when stuff like this pops up, it forces me to become more active again and I don't like that any more than you do :p

Yeah, I was worried about the wording there. I am against suiciding and suiciding is punished with booting and banning, as just happened. You think I would encourage my members to suicide only to ban them shortly after they do so?

To clarify, I am explaining to you WHY LaF gets suicided on and WHY there is PDM resentment against LaF.



wtf? You killed it before we could even ARRANGE a KR against him. Fast acting by LaF. Don't blame us for that.



Yes, we asked to sign a pact, but don't act like you guys wanted another war. This is just spin. You yourself said you guys would much prefer to get back to netting. Sounds like contradictory statements to me in spirit.



Here is the ENTIRETY of what I sent to Parallax, lest you take more of my words out of context:

Arabian Nightmare ‎(5/14/2010 6:21 AM):
Yo. Stormreavers (#307) just hit one of your guys like 10 times. farm him into oblivion and then kill him at your leisure. i am warning you that after you farm him, he will very likely suicide, so you should farm him then IMMEDIATELY kill him.
Arabian Nightmare ‎(5/14/2010 6:23 AM):
nevermind, he is completely suiciding
Arabian Nightmare ‎(5/14/2010 6:23 AM):
we'll try to set up a KR ASAP

No help offered?? Really??



We need to inform you now when we take you or put you on DNH? By the way, I was never guaranteed a DNH from anyone in LaF, and although presumably there might have been one, I couldn't have known for sure. Not like it makes a difference anyways.



Not entirely your fault. Obviously the guy was in our alliance. But your willful refusal to wake up and address the reasons that make LaF so suicide-able compounds the problems--so yes, indirectly LaF IS at fault.

That's like saying a barbarian village says it's not their fault that they get plundered by a neighboring tribe even though they didn't have any guards on duty. Sure, it's not their fault they got plundered, but making itself an inviting target facilitated it.

"it's her fault she got raped, judge, she was wearing a short skirt"

It's not her fault, but answer this:

Who would a rapist more likely go after? A girl wearing a short skirt or a girl wearing tight jeans? Which is more inviting, prithee?

i have no idea, tan, i'm not a rapist and as such, don't reason like one. :)

I'm therapist.

Way to dodge the question! :P

heh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPEjcQvqSk

[edited for content by pang]

it's not dodging the question so much as making a point.
to answer your hypothetical, for accessibility, perhaps a rapist perfers a short skirt. but from what i understand, rapists have all sorts of fetishes and such that identify them pretty readily. so it's not at all inconceivable that a rapist would prefer cutting tight jeans off his victim.
although, as george carlin once said:

I'll just answer a few of these, since I'm on my way out the door....



you couldn't arrange a KR in a 22 hour window? When you're already at war doing daily kill chats? Bullcrap.


We didn't want a war... I said that... you are confirming what I said? We wanted to net that set, we planned to get back to that... that aligns perfectly with what I said, I believe. You said you would never sign a pact with those terms in it again, so we didn't sign a pact... simple as that.


I'm not saying that you need to inform us of it, you didn't even need to grant us one at all... but when you all started hitting us and started getting upset when we were hitting back.... that's just another example of PDM starting issues and then blaming others.


There is no fault on LaF when another alliance's member suicides us. I'm not even going to comment anymore on this because you're so wrong that it'll only serve to harden your stance into this backwards assumption that we are at fault for your member deciding to hit us. LaF will NOT accept responsibility for your members' poor decisions. That is something PDM must accept and pay for before we move on.


Also, TAN rationalizing rape is pretty weird.... very very weird... to the point where I would almost consider deleting his post :| that's fluffed man

What you're saying is that the problem is the VICTIM, not the attacker. That is SO backwards. It is not our fault for existing... just like it's not the fault of a girl for being attractive.

Basically what you're telling me is that it's our fault for being good netters with big countries, like it's a girl's fault for being attractive... that is NOT the problem. The problem is your members and your reaction to it. This is NOT the first time this has happened, and EACH time it happens, PDM tries to dodge responsibility.

Suck it up. Do the right thing. Make this right for a change.
PDM is a sad state of an alliance because of this type of mindset by their leaders.

keep digging yourself that hole, TAN.... this is getting pretty fluffed up.

mmmm PDM is targeting LaF? sign me up!

hey a new member... I wonder what existing member of the community is jumping on the pro-suiciding bandwagon....

archaic?

I have been off these boards for a long time Dave. Credit to you for keeping the community alive.

You two type too much