let me know if it actually works this time.

Sorry but this is horse fluff. While I certainly wish they'd do more SOF/LCN recognize that this is wrong and afaik they are not going to defend laf militarily for the next set or two.

The people that cheated got booted. They're not prospering and Laf has a huge blemish. Nobody won here.

You have people saying all of Laf should suffer and you have people saying you can't blame the whole alliance.

If we're going to start using old information from and old game run by a worthless asshole then where is the anti-rd crusade? I got a couple licks on them and I let it go. Should I have held my grudge forever?

Orkin: Do you see anyone defending Laf in game?

No one is suggesting eternal war on LaF. You are trying to blow this out of proportion to gain sympathy for LaF so your ally and thus your political position is not weakened. LaF, as an alliance, deserves a period of retribution for the acts their chosen leaders carried out in their name.

I agree, I never once said they don't deserve a period of retribution, but I'm for sure not the one blowing things out of proportion.

probably getting about that time where i should think about leaving this game forever. not sure i can dish out as much bullcrap as y'all do anymore. might be getting too old for it.

i think it's very clear that it is not about "cheating", the cheating incident might have been used for an "agenda". my bad if i got that wrong. (see dagga's post)

Not everything is about politics. Some folks are looking at the bigger picture.

EE doesn't have a ton of players. A handful (far less than ever before) cheat and the moderators/administrators seem to be doing their best to prevent it. When an alliance has a few members caught cheating, do we throw out the bath with the bathwater? Can we afford to lose multiples of those numbers of cheaters in clean players? And who ultimately defines "cheating" aside from the administrators? You don't think folks may grow tired of PDM and declare landtraders to be cheaters? You haven't read people calling landtrading cheating before? Think big picture.

I think those who feel slighted should take their action out on the battlefield. Demolish them and say you're pissed. Let them work their diplomacy. Issuing ultimatums that are really attempts to rid them from the game is not helping anyone except the shortest of terms.

Says you.

If SOF/LCN or whoever else feels like it is in their interest to defend LAF, they certainly should do so.

Note that thus far LAF doesn`t need the help of anyone to win its wars. Quite the contrary.

For some alliances this may be about cheating and past grudges. For the rest it is just about cheating.

Lets put aside here the fact that the cheaters got banned from the game...

But why is it sad? The most fun times I had in earth2025 was when my own clan (MET) was having problems with the people then using (more like abusing) the RD tag to harass us during three sets. We used game admin help (yeah, omac functioned for that, go figure) and also fought them ingame, plus our legit enemies, and also pulled some hilarious stunts.

Right now the server was served with a reason for a lot of activity to both power blocks for multiple sets to come. One side can energize their membership by saying internally that they are going to outfight or outnet the cheaters from laf and the other side gets to prove that they can be top dogs without the cheating. Could be fun if used smartly. And no need to try to guilty trip tags into dropping laf.

I am looking at the big picture. Cheaters are never adequately punished in this game so people continue to cheat and drive off more and more players. Losing a dozen people now (if that is what happens) by showing that the community takes a hard stance against cheating and thus eliminating any future leadership-type level cheating is well worth it.

I am not sure why you are talking about cheating definitions - the admins labeled hanlong and TC to be cheaters. There are no questions about that. You are just trying to obscure things. There is no question that hanlong and TC cheated. The admins have stated that.

I have never seen someone go through more hoops to try and validate cheating before.

You forget something that's quite fundamental. Cheating is inherently an INDIVIDUAL's decision. If LaF knew hanlong and TC were up to no good, we wouldn't have stood idly by and watched them do so.

What you're suggesting is that "if the community takes a hard stance against [the concept of] cheating" by driving more LaF members (in your word "a dozen people now"), that will some how magically translate to INDIVIDUALs in future not attempting to cheat? It's a fundamentally flawed concept.

Making somebody your leader or welcoming back a known cheat (tc among others) is INHERENTLY your alliance's decision. Maybe, if laf took a stance and stuck to it you wouldn't have had people like TC running riot. Look at the havoc he's causing now, and it's all for LAF :)

Nice try though.

There are two issues:
1) you let a known cheater back
2) you benefited from the cheating

If an alliance benefits from cheating, there is no reason not to cheat in the future. All the cheating is justified if it strengthens what it is intended to strengthen.

And Evo has never invited known cheaters into their midst? Please...

What TC is doing right now has got nothing to do LaF. As far as we're concerned, he's no longer a part of LaF, so stop trying to make such thinly veiled attempts at keeping this link between TC and LaF going. You're the only one that's perpetuating it, not us.

Detmer, I see where you're coming from. But again, you're saying two different things -
1) If an alliance benefits from cheating, there's no reason not to cheat in the future

Again, you're assuming that we knew about his cheating and did nothing about it. He chose to cheat as an individual, and has been banned by both LaF and the EE admins. Martian has also conducted his investigations and has already said that there's no evidence that any of the rest of us cheated. And again, if individuals are going to cheat, that's their decision, and we're left with having to pick up the pieces. We were every bit as shocked and outraged as everyone else was, so please stop trying to make it sound as if we were all in it together.

2) All the cheating is justified

Cheating is never justified.

rofl

Man way to much posting by certain individuals from laf and non-laf. For those not already killing us already and consider entire laf cheaters. Just hit us already, it's just that simple.

No - you don't have to have known about the cheating. If the net effect of cheating is positive then there is incentive for people to cheat. The positive effects of the cheating need to be removed. If all in-game records of LaF since TC/hanlong obtained their DB access were erased I would drop this instantly. I am not saying that is the best way to proceed, but it is one route that would "resolve" the issue in my eyes. Sure - their personal records were deleted which is very straight foward, and realistically all that is fair for the admins to do, but that doesn't come close to resolving the legacy of their cheating.

I'm happy with the admins of this game. Cheating is down huge compared to the way it was in 2025.

The admins correctly labeled Hanlong and TC to be cheaters and took appropriate action. Every action taken by the community (or those inclined alliances) after that is by definition political. In effect, they're creating a standard for handling cheating. Many question their motives and others question the benefit of it to the game. You pretending that people are wrong to question them or questioning them by default puts you on the same level of cheaters is ridiculous.

Tell me what stops them from saying the same thing about PDM with landtrading. Do you have assurances that they won't? Did anyone ask if they would say the same standard would apply to them? What do you think?

Plotting to handle it as a group in public leads me to believe the motivations are more political than they are about allocating punishment. You may not agree, but frankly I don't care.

Getting rid of most of the stuff here :P I shall leave my suggestion for next set though.


My suggestion is to sit down and figure out between the calmer people in each alliance(Yank, Goku etc etc) a way to take this and make the best out of it and improve the servers health. But I doubt this will happen so you can ignore it or troll this as you will.

I don't think stopping laf from winning TNW/ANW this reset, the reset in which they benefitted from the hacker's actions is inappropriate. LaF is not innocent as an alliance as they let TC, a known cheater return to their ranks. That makes the alliance partially responsible for him.

Yet from everything I see certain members want a holy crusade. Funny how most of them didn't think to try it against the bot users back in 2025. I'd rather see next set come out with a positive attitude :P It won't though. Perhaps I'll join TROLL! ;)

i dont think troll will exist next set. orkin is playing somewhere else according to my sources

Yeah I've stated I'm not a fan of running laf out of the game for reset after reset. But I do think a penance should be paid in this case since we and you all knew about TC's past. You had the right to give him another chance but that also means you take responsibility for him IMO

Yeah I told Arsenal I'd play in MD for one reset in exchange for help on getting some rentals through this set ;)

eww. WHAT DID TROLL FIGHT FOR ORKIN!? You sold out dude. Playing with the government now! ;)

Nah I already told Arsenal I'm gonna say whatever I want still. And that if the Evo allegations turn out to be true I expect MD to have the same response against Evo that they have had to LaF. I might just join MD this reset and reset up TROLL next reset ;)

What TC and hanlong did is clearly against the rules. The rules state nothing about "landtrading". The admins have indeed said it is legal and that any alterations will come in the form of game mechanics.

How do you define political? If you mean to strengthen PDM's position - that is not my purpose. If you mean to get others to alter their behavior to socially engineer this game such that people are reluctant to cheat in the future - then absolutely.

And I know you don't care. That is the problem.

I just want to reiterate that beyond game rules whatTC/hanlong did is a real world crime.

Heh, here we go again. Why should anyone give a fluff about what you think rather than what each one of us do?

Man all of this over a game???
Better an ancient text based game.
Maybe 2012 is the year we go boom!!

ORKIN, you're an idiot. You've been an idiot since AT. Remember when you were alienated by the other mods? Well, it wasn't them it was you.

Have a swirvey day.

i qualify it as sloppy admin. kinda like when i had to remind Servant that i shouldn't have access to various forums after they booted me out of Monsters.

-

is there something wrong with his statements or are you against him joining MD? just asking. :p

You don't actually give a fluff about cheating anon so why don't you just shut the fluff up and leave this to people who actually care about cheaters/cheating in this game. The only reason you and Evo are on AT running your mouth is to press your political agenda and quash a rival.

incorrect. i'll give you 1 more go.

this is for the money

Two actions:

1) Game/admin action based on the rules.
2) Political action by three alliances based on their own coalition.

The former is very easily defined, as much as possible without any regard for the political affairs of the game, and doing a heck of a job.

The latter has been tried many timees unsuccessfully and typically been driven by in-game politics. If you don't think people will adapt what they say to suit their whims then I have no idea what you have ever learned playing this game.

Right now I think EE needs more players. I'm encouraged by the admins attempts to build the game. I think establishing clean play has really brought veterans back out of the woodwork (myself included) because it meant not playing with scores of bots that killed you if you said the wrong thing or posted the wrong message on a mod board. I'm comfortable leaving cheating to the admins. If folks want to say they didn't like Laf then and now they want retribution, then be honest about it.

PDM is trying to win dagga's trust so they still have someone to cling to just in case. lol.

LCN or SoF could have been the first to make a move knowing that all LaFer's cheat. i don't think they'll do much complaining on AT, they will just start hitting. fortunately, SG and the admins had taken the required action and has cleared up things on martian's post. (my thought) LaF still need to prove themselves without hanlong or TC.

Man, I was all set to post in this thread, but I think that the bar has been lowered so far that its even beneath me.

That's not easy to do and I am very impressed by all of your hard work.