2012-02-10 Game change affecting Restarts

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 20th 2012, 0:03:16

so far i have lost 2 in ffa and only positive i can think so far is land and cs's but negative is expenses (I make less money on turn 70 than orig. country made day 1) and total lack of monwy (3.9m ain't much) so player spends turns mostly by building cs's after has built few farms to get money to build cs's so it takes quite long time before player is back in action (foreign aid is needed still) and player comes oop w/o defense so he/she can get killed quickly again.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

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enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Feb 20th 2012, 13:51:33

do self deleters and deleted countries get the bonuses?

im thinking they shouldnt

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 20th 2012, 17:52:21

doubt game separates deleteds and restarts.

Edited By: Marshal on Feb 20th 2012, 20:59:21
See Original Post

chapman951

Member
208

Feb 20th 2012, 21:40:15

cool

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9476

Feb 20th 2012, 22:59:11

Marshal you can sell stuff and make yourself back into a typical restart with cash!

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Feb 21st 2012, 15:45:03

deleted and self-deleted are treated the same way for these purposes (ie you don't get anything).

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Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 21st 2012, 17:48:19

Originally posted by Requiem:

Marshal you can sell stuff and make yourself back into a typical restart with cash!

have you restarted under new system? all can be built is farms and cs's and player comes oop totally unprotected or with few k troops and turrets.

restart gets 10% of money in hand so unless dies with 500m in hand then player is screwed quite a while (especially if bushels public price is low).

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Feb 21st 2012, 19:10:43

what you get has nothing to do with what money you had before you died...

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9476

Feb 21st 2012, 19:30:25

I have not restarted under the new system yet...

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Feb 21st 2012, 20:40:20

you get
$25,000 cash
PLUS
$3,000/turn played

regardless of what cash you had when you died..

oh yeah, we can distinguish between deleted and self deleted :P

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 21st 2012, 21:13:57

so at this point of set its around 4m and 135-142 cs's (no idea why that big range) and has negative income quite a while (during most of turns in hand) and gets positive income just before (~30 turns) gets oop and player gets oop with 100k-300k bushels and with some military or 0 military and bit cash (depending restart build) so if player tags up he/she gets killed by enemy, if doesn't tag gets farmed by other tags unless tags and gets fa packages. with current bushel prices restarting sux.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Feb 21st 2012, 21:15:53

err; it shouldn't have negative income at all; how would it have negative income?

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 21st 2012, 21:40:18

Originally posted by qzjul:

err; it shouldn't have negative income at all; how would it have negative income?

tax revenues is positive but expenses drag total income negative.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Feb 21st 2012, 22:30:00

they shouldn't; all you have is land expenses, which aren't that much; i did test this....

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 21st 2012, 22:59:53

with 35 or 36% tax player loses 10kish on 1st turn and then it drops few hundred per turn and around turn 70 its positive and at turn 80 player has around same total income as fresh country has with better def (if uses indy start).

I can provide screenshot tomorrow if needed since I'm sure I'll lose few countries in ffa by tomorrow.

ZIP

Member
3222

Feb 21st 2012, 23:35:19

ya here is a snap shot on 0 turns played and a neg. income

http://i257.photobucket.com/...3/kevinhutt/Incomloss.jpg

fluff your 300 Spartans fool - i have 32 of the biggest fluffed mother fluffers made of titanium !!
A brigade from Blackstreetboyz (#91) has invaded your lands! Your defenses held against the invaders and forced them away! Your military lost:1 Troops

sigma

Member
406

Feb 22nd 2012, 2:47:40

Originally posted by ZIP:

ya here is a snap shot on 0 turns played and a neg. income

http://i257.photobucket.com/...3/kevinhutt/Incomloss.jpg

Well according to that screenshot.. you have the wrong amount of population.

Max pop for 1383 @ 35% tax and no res buildings/tech and is mon should be

11,077. Your screenshot shows only 801 population.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Feb 22nd 2012, 4:52:49

you *should* have max pop when you restart. If you don't then post to B&S and let us know.
I tested this at 100,200,500,750,1000,1500,2000,2500,3000 turns and under no case do you have negative income. And at least on alpha servers one did get max pop. It should work exactly the same on alliance.

if you restart and that's not the case, pm me your country number and we'll look into it.

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

QM Diver

Member
1096

Feb 22nd 2012, 9:41:25

Well, this should prove exciting for war... ;o)

'Atta boys' go to ALL who contributed to this brain fart! This one smells pretty good to me! :P

Natural Born Killers
PreZ

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 22nd 2012, 17:20:00

Originally posted by QM Diver:

Well, this should prove exciting for war... ;o)

'Atta boys' go to ALL who contributed to this brain fart! This one smells pretty good to me! :P

yea, restarts are even more f'ed up than before.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Feb 22nd 2012, 18:08:05

well you can always destroy all your CS and drop your land...

Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Feb 22nd 2012, 18:08:37

but anyway, you shouldn't have negative income; if there is, post on B&S

Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Feb 22nd 2012, 18:26:56

I fixed the bug; the land wasn't being updated properly before pop was recalculated....

Finally did the signature thing.

Duna

Member
787

Feb 22nd 2012, 20:56:11

btw, i have idea. Its easy to see, if country is war restart or new country. Just in case someone didnt know.

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martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Feb 22nd 2012, 21:53:58

yeah we realize with this change it's easy to tell if someone is a war restart or new but pretty much with any kind of restart boost that is going to be the case..

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 22nd 2012, 22:29:05

too bad that fix won't be retroactive.

ZIP

Member
3222

Feb 28th 2012, 1:48:55

I had to post something - i have been looking at marshal's name for 5 days after announcements, enough

**pees in corner to mark territory

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 28th 2012, 18:17:20

*throws napalm on zip's direction*

iolair

Member
151

Feb 29th 2012, 6:50:31

I guess I'll have to try it out ... its gonna be different

Edited By: iolair on Mar 5th 2012, 1:30:19
See Original Post

nothing to see here ... move along

Marshal

Member
32,589

Feb 29th 2012, 20:46:19

more money for restarts wouldn't hurt.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Mar 2nd 2012, 13:02:13

once the restart ends I'm gonna make a thread asking for feedback. We aren't adverse to tinkering with the formulae.

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

sigma

Member
406

Mar 2nd 2012, 15:13:57

cool... my only suggestion, although i haven't gotten to restart yet, would be make the money given as ((land*3)+1500)*land=restart money

Marshal

Member
32,589

Mar 2nd 2012, 17:12:17

Originally posted by martian:

once the restart ends I'm gonna make a thread asking for feedback. We aren't adverse to tinkering with the formulae.

restart or reset?

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Mar 4th 2012, 16:35:32

it would be easy enough to come up with a formula that gives enough cash to build X% of land

since a 500 acre restart can build a lot more than a 5k one in percentage terms

which means the bigger one which already has 500 csites probably has to spend turns building more csites

or just 10 buildings a turn type thing to just increase income a little quicker

Marshal

Member
32,589

Mar 4th 2012, 17:12:37

20 would be nice and 30-50m would be great.

restarting doesn't suck that badly if market doesn't suck as it sux atm at ffa and at alliance.

ZIP

Member
3222

Mar 5th 2012, 0:20:50

Originally posted by enshula:

but with more land = more cs. in my testing you can be fully built in ~ 50 turns no matter if it is early or late in the set.
* me thinks

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Mar 5th 2012, 17:12:32

"but with more land = more cs. in my testing you can be fully built in ~ 50 turns no matter if it is early or late in the set.
"

That was sort of the objective. We were hesitant to give enough initial cash to fully build up the land because we don't want to have a set up where restarting every 101 turns somehow gets you ahead of or on par to someone who hasn't restarted. (This is why we don't give 70 turns immediately when you restart for example:P )

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

ZIP

Member
3222

Mar 5th 2012, 22:05:48

great change. Wait till more of you die and get a chance to try this out. Just send me your country # and we can see if we can speed things up for ya.

People have been fluffing that most of the changes have been leaning toward the netters, this is a nice change for the fighters.

Son Goku

Member
745

Mar 6th 2012, 5:07:13

Is it intended for countries to be able to drop land and have their alliance kill them so they can restart with a better country?

Allowing yourself to be killed should never be beneficial to your country.

crest23

Member
4666

Mar 6th 2012, 5:16:20

Do you have an example of this? With the amount of turns and resources needed to kill the country, how is that beneficial to the alliance?

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Forgotten

Member
1605

Mar 6th 2012, 11:29:26

#856, alliance server

~LaF's Retired Janitor~

ZIP

Member
3222

Mar 6th 2012, 13:25:20

ok forgotten wants to try it out - someone kill him -

there i passed it on for ya

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Mar 7th 2012, 13:14:35

@Son Goku: The reason why we didn't give restarts more than we did was because we were concerned about that.

Under the setup it's extremely hard to be better off restarting than vs someone who didn't restart and played turns. Note that at the very least you lose all your tech and military. I think I could deliberately create a country where it would be optimal to restart (but I guess you could do that under the old rules too) but doing that is worse than simply playing normally and not being in that situation in the first place.

I also fail to see how during war it's optimimal to do this given that you are losing time/turns you could have spent hitting a target (100 turns of potential warring gone).

Also deliberately letting yourself be killed during war means that the enemy tag now has more turns to kill your alliance mates so unless you hate your tag, this isn't optimal either (this remains unchanged from before imo).

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

highrock

Member
564

Mar 7th 2012, 20:39:16

This is all under the assumption that the goal of war is to kill. From what I see, that is no longer strictly true.

Also, if somebody drops all of their land, does that count as a self-delete or a kill (i.e. do they get their restart bonuses)?

formerly Viola MD

Forgotten

Member
1605

Mar 7th 2012, 22:47:47

if someone drops their land to be land killed by their own alliance, they shouldn't be able to restart with more land and more CSes.

~LaF's Retired Janitor~

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7841

Mar 8th 2012, 16:48:26

"Also, if somebody drops all of their land, does that count as a self-delete or a kill (i.e. do they get their restart bonuses)?"

If you drop your land to 0 that counts as a self delete. Fortunately we beta tested everything else before implementing that:P.

If someone drops land to 1 acre and gets killed by their own tag that doesn't count as a self delete. We thought that it would become rather arbitrary and messy otherwise. @forgotten: I agree that it's sort of abusive but at the same time we rigged it so that you are better off not doing that in all situations we could dream up. We aren't going to prevent people from playing the game poorly.. nor do I think there's any reason to implement things to stop people from doing things that might not be optimal game play:P

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

highrock

Member
564

Mar 8th 2012, 23:03:44

There are many situations in which it is better to restart (i.e. a parking lot with minimal land/tech).

formerly Viola MD

Son Goku

Member
745

Mar 10th 2012, 2:27:48

Originally posted by highrock:

There are many situations in which it is better to restart (i.e. a parking lot with minimal land/tech).

Yep, the cs need to be scaled back a bit.

Moving it to 1 CS per 15 turns played would balance it a bit.

ZIP

Member
3222

Mar 10th 2012, 19:38:59

good as it is