effectively immediately and on all servers we have implemented the following changes live:

When you restart after being killed in battle you get the following

100 acres, $25,000 cash
PLUS
1 acre + $3,000/turn played
PLUS
1 cs for every 10 turns played
PLUS
All stored turns and bonuses your prior country had (stored turns remain as stored turns)
PLUS
the number of turns that you would have accumulated since dying up to the maximum of normal turns you are allowed on the server
The number of turns played is the total number of turns you played during the reset across all restarts.
PLUS
maximum population for the land you are given for monarchy at 35% tax rate

This was implemented in a effort to make restarting easier and to encourage people to plan an entire reset and to add another dimension to the game.

NOTE:
This does not apply to self-deleting or being deleted for rules violations.
also
For FFA the bonus is calculated on a first in first out basis. So the first restart you make will get bonuses based on the first country that was killed.


enjoy

++martian

:)

This change was something we'd been talking about for a while (it was martians idea!) but didn't quite make the reset cutoff -- but basically nobody has died thus far in alliance, and it doesn't *really* affect solo servers, and FFA is new as well; in alliance I will be retroactively crediting the one or two deaths that happened before we pushed this in.

Apologies for the In-Progress change, but we decided it would be better to get it in late than wait another two months.

Also, this isn't implemented in tourney due to the levels system.

hmm interesting changes =)

i wish it was done in between resets instead of mid reset though

Excellent. Not as much as I had suggested (10% of original country), but a good starting point nonetheless.

Can you clarify what is meant by "bonuses your prior country had"? They don't apply to the bonuses spent on Turns/Booms right?

ya, nice to finally get this in.

We'll also hopefully be able to implement rerolling bonus points for restarts too, but that would have just made getting this done take even longer.

nice!!!

@Pang:

Re-rolling bonus points is exploitable. if I died on day 50, I would be able to reroll 200 turns immediately by throwing all 400 points into turns. Attack OOP with it, drop myself to 5 acres, have a clan mate land kill me, repeat with new restart and reroll another 200 turns from 400 bonus points. Repeat forever for infinite turns.

but your friends are wasting their turns to kill you. They could just FA you instead...

no, they're wasting turn. singular.

losing 1 turn to land kill someone as a tyr is far out weighed by the 100 turns OOP you would gain.

If he drops his land to 1 acre and then gets land grabbed...

anyways people that abuse this will just get banned, simple really

there are a few holes with this change, but they will fix them on the go.

Regarding bonuses, people should only keep the bonuses they had (luck/building cost/etc) not the points, also bonus turns (ALL OF THEM) shouldn't count towards the turns played in the set, and shouldn't be rewarded at all.

^ why not? It seems fine to me to let someone get a small land/cash/cs kicker for spending bonus on turns. I just don't think they should be able to be "re-rerolled".

or if they are, not allowed to be spent on turns...

The plan is just to make people keep permanent bonuses; turn bonuses you spent get credited in a sense as they are part of turns_played.

We thought of the drop land to one acre and get grabbed. But you don't really get ahead by doing that. Plus you lose all your tech and bushels which can be worth a *lot* mid-late set.

I like the idea of letting people keep the permanent bonuses, but why not have points that can only be spent on permanent bonuses? Or maybe just give the points that were unspent or spent on perm bonuses.

you don't lose much if you're right oop, which was the scenario that we were talking about

Nice additions, but the cash seems somewhat low as it is needed for both food and military.

Assuming a week 3 war, a 1a country plays 1638 turns in 21 days. It would have 1738a land and $4,939,000.

What about giving 5% of previous military? Or 50 bushels per acre?

Cool change guys!

Mapleson, if you give restarts too much, people will just let their countries be killed instead of walling, that isn't the goal of this.

I like this.

@mapleson: It's possible that we low-balled the money. Having tested this about 20 times at least I fully realize that it isn't enough cash to rebuild everything, but that wasn't really the point. Depending on how well this works, it's conceivable that we will change some of the amounts in upcoming sets to make it more effective, but the only way to get a feel for that is to see how players/tags use what's there now.

We had a long discussion about carrying over % military and determined that the potential for abuse for something like that early set is high and we didn't want to discourage selling military to wall.

Fair enough, just didn't want restarts to be farmed into the ground having 2k acres and <40k turrets (spending all cash on military).

Interesting change indeed.

even if you have all that, you restart under protection, and with CS ready, so you can actually grow a military/production before leaving protection so your point is moot.

right, you still have 100 turns of protection, we thought about giving players to option of coming out of protection early but decided against the idea.
Of course it's possible to come out of protection with 2K acres and get farmed but hopefully alliances will coordinate to prevent that from happening to their members too too much, plus remember that dr and humanitarians are still in full force.

Looking at it in war terms, which is 99% chance as to why you would restart, if you had 400 bonus points you could get 200 turns. 100 opp, 100 to attack, get killed, repeat. That is the issue with giving a country turns, or ability to get turns, on creation. If that provides more clarity to what Azz and Xin are saying.

I don't see getting farmed to be an issue as you will almost always be at war and if not you must have really fluffed up to have been killed...

@firefly: right. which is why you don't start with 72 turns when you restart unless the appropriate amount of time has elapsed.

regarding the bonus points let me just check with pang/qz regarding how that actually works..

oh never mind.. *read up*

hmm weird changes, kinda changes who you target lol

okaly dokaly.

the amounts are probably fine

its at least worth seeing how it goes before we suggest changing it :P

under this new system you trade a whole lot more starting stuff for up to 72 turns less attacking

and thats only if you were online walling or had just attacked so giving more benefit to those more likely to be blindsided is fine

martian's idea? i first proposed this idea 2 years ago...

http://forums.earthempires.com/...p;p=1289024553&page=1

and the more turns idea on starting:
http://forums.earthempires.com/...?threadid=2303&page=1





"what if when you restarted a dead country...
llaar Member Posts: 1,402
Jun 21st 2010, 16:13:27
it becomes 1/10th the size it was before it died?

like if you had a 10 mill NW country, you'd get a 1 mill NW restart with 50 turns on hand with 1/10th the bushels/cash/tech etc that you had before you died"

Xinhuan: where did you post about a 1/10th idea? that was my idea a couple years ago... heh

These are good changes, but there is no way in hell this should have been done mid reset like this. I can tell you right now that I would have spent the bonus points I've used thus far this reset differently had I known this was going to be coming into effect now.

Implementing this now inherently benefits those who have chosen perm bonuses over those who have not. That is fine for future resets because people will have this knowledge available, so it is their risk/choice to make (plus re-rolling will be in for next round anyway, apparently).

Llaar, I suggested it on AT somewhere but also realized you had suggested it separately (I think you linked your thread there then).

qz/martian: The change to provide 1 acre per 10 turns played in a restart allows someone to track who a country's restart is. If I am in a war and I ordered to kill some country that has played 1670 turns (from spying him before the kill run), then I would know his restart has 100+1670=1770 acres at the time of creation.

This has practical uses because 2 resets ago, during the first Evo/LaF war, many Evo members restarted as untags to grow, and with this change, we would now be able to accurately track which untagged restarts are Evo even if they don't tag up immediately.

This is something for you to consider, and I think it is a bad idea. A workaround could be to instead offer 200 acres per 200 turns played, so the restart tracking is far less accurate (but still doable to narrow down countries to less than a handful).

Another workaround would be to code in something to not immediately add the free restart acres on creation, but only to add them after spending at least 1 turn. Or have a mechanic to add 10 acres per actual turn spent in the restarted country until all the restart acres have been credited. That way, building costs will scale properly as well and not start out absurdly high on turn 1.

And even then, the restarted country can still be tracked by its starting NW which would be 4717 + all the freebies (mainly the CS/money/land and very minor from pop) that can be calculated. SO the only real way a restart would be able to hide his restart is to play turns within the 5 min window of every SCORES update/newsfeed. As such, the restart freebies should not credited on country creation, but only after spending at least the first turn.


Multiple Edits: To clarify, add examples and fix grammar.

Fair point, but I never liked people going to hide in other to grow while his team mates die, if there is no one capable of breaking then just CF and surrender.

if this makes people capable to identify the restarts of suiciders then better.

I certainly think there should be a limit to the number of restarts w/ bonuses allowed. Something like 3 in Alliance/Primary and 16 in FFA.

FFA wars would become much more time consuming and brutal if there was no limit to boosted restarts. A clan that is defeated but never gives up would be able to continue to cause heavy damage and casualties on the other side.

I like it.

you tried it yet helmet?

llaar: ya but your idea was different! :)

H4: it was only a couple days in; well before war season; and given people have been asking for this for a while, probably better to do it sooner than later

Xin: just login and drop some land ? it's already not particularly difficult to track people unless the kill rate on the server is really high

Watertowers: what? why? so?

Xin: that's a good point. Would a small random factor help perchance? 8-12 acres per turn spent?

just brainstorming.

yay!

chchchchchchangess

Sweet
Let me test it right away.

i used to get notifications when a new post was posted on this board. hmmm

@llaar.. yes.. which proves we really do read these threads :P(sorry didn't mean to steal credit). Others also gave input in terms of doing something other than k% and strenghtening restarts.

Good change. This will make wars more intresting. But money should be alot more. Like 30 000 per turn. Or even more. 5M cash is nothing.

:) love this

cool