Verified:

braden

Member
11,480

Jul 22nd 2023, 20:23:04

Cyref- do as you've been told above and take your rightful place in weedylar!

cyref

Member
EE Patron
850

Jul 23rd 2023, 1:41:27

Originally posted by Real Man:
Cyref, go netgain on a solo server if you want solo player dynamics. What’s the point of having an alliance to solo style netgain on the alliance server ?

But where did I say I want to play a solo server with solo dynamics?
I was simply pointing out Mehul's intended dynamics where your final NW measured success and war was one of several components that could be used to achieve that goal.

Grudge wars that repeat set after set with multiple tags ganging up against alliances that prefer to use diplomacy and commerce (also components of the game) to compete for the NW title are by their very nature harmful to the player base. It used to be, there was a reason for a war in any given set. That's why the NLS v NM 'bored war' was unique in it's time, and why Imaginary Numbers were different because they DGAF about NW when they went to war.

I too miss the good old days where you had to measure every landgrab against a live opponent; where you calculated to win the exchange even after the retal. But that worked best when there were thousands of countries on the server not dozens.

The neverending grudge wars were not the only cause but they certainly contributed to the loss of players in this game. They certainly contributed to the loss of members in my tag at the end of the Jolt era, when a couple tags with much bigger numbers decided to FS and/or RoR the mostly netting tag I was in with no reason for war and with no concern for their own ending NW.

The introduction of bots was an attempt by the current developers to counter that and I wish the bots would be capable of retal be it with spies or BRs or ABs or missiles or anything except just roll over and explore for more land. And the bots are also dumb at commerce and detrimental to the public market play that was the original genius of Mehul's creation.

Why is it some tags _never_ attempt a netgaining set?

Is it because most of their members have no interest in netting? Is it because to them the entire game consists of building a battlewagon and then logging in at the chat time and mashing the attack button when they are told? Yeah well that can be fun once in a while if ya got the time but set after set after set?
Effing b o r I n g !

tbh i see ClanGDI in it's current form as an attempt to provide netters with an alternative to getting run out of the game but ultimately it's an overreaction to what the warmongers have already done to this game.

Derrick has some really good ideas about how ClanGDI could be implemented and I hope they will be explored.

So RM, telling me to F OFF and go play on a solo server is just your way of avoiding the real discussion of what has happened to this game. Yours is not a serious attempt to discuss potential fixes.
👽

cyref

Member
EE Patron
850

Jul 23rd 2023, 1:53:06

Originally posted by braden:
Cyref- do as you've been told above and take your rightful place in weedylar!


Heya braden howzitgoin'?

But RM didn't say that. He said i should go play on a solo server. In his world my opinion disqualifies me from any form of Team play.
👽

DerrickICN

Member
EE Patron
6339

Jul 23rd 2023, 4:55:39

Originally posted by cyref:
Originally posted by braden:
Cyref- do as you've been told above and take your rightful place in weedylar!


Heya braden howzitgoin'?

But RM didn't say that. He said i should go play on a solo server. In his world my opinion disqualifies me from any form of Team play.


Excuses is all I'm hearing. Don't miss the super team lol.

I think my opinions about ClanGDI are as old as the discussion. As I recall, they've always been well received, and as far as I understand it, the biggest hurdle to climb was just programming hours. I think there's a reason pang never implemented the changeset he was building, and it isn't just that more netters were agreeing with my ideas than this buildout. It's because without politics and such built in, it kills half of the game. Even if he went with his own opinion over that of the community, he could see the impending mass exodus we're seeing now.

That said, people have wanted the expenses formula fixed to provide parity between strats for...the whole time there has been bots. I think it's a little disingenuous to say all 1a wardogs don't ever net. Or, at least, it's a generalization. I held a netting record on one server for a time, and really enjoy that aspect of the game.

I find the netting meta of 1a completely intolerable. From bots controlling the market to land fat FFO being the only strat able to compete for 1st (don't get me wrong...the fact that many have been close but no one has crossed 800m as demo reseller has entered my mind because I'm good at that strat. But finishing in 17th place to break that record has made me never do it. Perhaps it's in some part my motivation and not necessarily the meta. But I like winning, and i know DTR or MBR cant do it).

I think the game just needs to be open sourced at this point, and for players to vote on changes. Anything short of that seems to be people who havent played in a decade plugging in super out of touch changes in response to the handful of people they're close to crying.

It's been like 8 years since an FFO at 350k+ didn't win 1a. And the idea that 5,000 bot hits takes less time than a handful of warchats is actually a lie and completely asinine and disingenuous.

I view it as "players who like playing with the community" vs "players who like playing alone" rather than "treehuggers" and "wolves." Granted, the wardogs have occasionally done wars against netters but there's generally half a decade in between the barage of friendly wars we do against each other.

The goal shouldn't be to stop a war meta from proliferation. It should be to balance a bad netting meta so people like me who are cool with both find netting interesting again. The game is dying. Don't try to kill metas. Try to grow them.

I would dead ass seriously go full netter if 5k bot hits and oil destocking wasn't the only way to win. I think that's important to consider.

Edited By: DerrickICN on Jul 23rd 2023, 5:53:54
See Original Post

DerrickICN

Member
EE Patron
6339

Jul 23rd 2023, 5:02:11

Netters always say "I don't have time to show up to a 20 minute warchat" right before they spend 2 hours making bot hits. It's actually a bullfluff narrative, and the time constraint to win this server vs winning a war is much, much more for a general member and we all know it. Every time I've ever won a server, I spent more than double as much time as I ever did in a war.

You do have the time, cyref. You just choose not to spend it with me. And I view that as my misfortune that you prefer not to interact because you're one of my very most favorite people in the game. I'd argue your want not to interact is actually the problem.

In general, seeing as the community is breaking up atm. If you haven't met cyref, do yourself a favor and say hello. Few people who have ever played this game come close to him as a person. I can only hope you can make him interact with delightful conversations, because currently it seems he is against wardogs and says they hit netters at random despite the fact that we all love and respect him and no one has hit MONSTERS in over a decade.

Good politics are good politics. Bad politics get netters killed.

No clan I've ever been a part of has ever touched you netting, cyref, and I've been warring for 10 years straight. If we just hit netters when we are bored, don't you find it weird we have never hit you once? Feels like maybe, just maybe, we will never hit you because you're a nice fluffin guy. And that can't be said about every netter here.

You do, however, get suicided and griefed. I understand when you're netting, it's hard to separate the two, but the idea of politics/war and netting being mutually exclusive is a farce. Mitigating wardogs because of a bad netting meta is silly.

Edited By: DerrickICN on Jul 23rd 2023, 5:32:15
See Original Post

cyref

Member
EE Patron
850

Jul 23rd 2023, 10:42:10

Derrick luv ya bro but knock it off with the gooey stuff!
i'm a grumpy old bass turd and even moreso as the big 7-0 approaches.

It's true i have withdrawn from interactions in this game but i have other priorities, and I'm more of a numbers guy anyway.

Seeing grown men on the forums call each other cowards over disputes in an anonomous online text based strategy game never amused me but now it just makes me want to puke. I don't find stupidity even a little bit amusing any more and is why i rarely visit AT.

I've been playing all-x for a couple years now quietly setting all-x NW records and even just missing a T10 with one (11th) a few sets back. About 4 yrs ago I had a couple wins with repub cashers and many T10s but yeah no doubt FFO is overpowered and when not interfered by war is the consistant winner.

But botgrabbing is not nearly as time-intensive as you describe. I literally LOLd at your "5000 bot hits" comment but you knew that was an extreme exaggeration. And - important to me - i play my turns when i want to, not at some preset warchat time that most often ends up starting late and eating up over an hour of my time. The days of planning my time around warchats are long gone.

You are right, I'm not that commited to this game any more and could easily walk away but i do want to continue to support this game even if just a little by buying EE coin since the owners did save it from an early grave years ago (2010?)
And I enjoy occasional banter with my tagmates.

So yeah as AT became more rancid and more stoooooopid I became more of an isolationist. Does that really make me part of the problem? And the clans that gang up on a netting-preferred clan set after set after set are not?
*shrugs*
👽

braden

Member
11,480

Jul 23rd 2023, 12:58:46

Originally posted by cyref:
Originally posted by braden:
Cyref- do as you've been told above and take your rightful place in weedylar!


Heya braden howzitgoin'?

But RM didn't say that. He said i should go play on a solo server. In his world my opinion disqualifies me from any form of Team play.


Weedylar is one. But yea my response didn't jive. I got excited to see you :(

allbymyself87

Member
796

Aug 15th 2023, 9:51:03

Set is ending soon.

Are there any plans to implement costs/expenses for joining Clan GDI?

Or qzjul planning to let all the netters going defenseless again with no costs/expenses at all?

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5077

Aug 15th 2023, 13:42:42

A cost has no utility. forcing us to buy (but not keep) troops turrets tanks would be ideal.

Assuming you don't just want to cost us out of GDI so you can hit us.

braden

Member
11,480

Aug 15th 2023, 13:46:52

How would forcing to buy military units work? What would it look it?

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5077

Aug 15th 2023, 15:21:28

Originally posted by braden:
How would forcing to buy military units work? What would it look it?

My suggestion was that attacking, just as costing oil would consume troops, tanks or turrets on the basis that GDI is a protective alliance and require military to generate that defense. Thereby it adds to market demand of those units without actually all going into military expenses, which a minimum military requirement would do.

So how it would display is something like this:

"You have enough oil for 75,000,000 military units and defensive units enough to for 13,000,000 military units"
and the mechanism would be that for every lets say 250 units you send you would lose an extra 1 tank, 4 troops or 4 turrets (plus 10 oil).

Depending on how much and what you grabbed and how effectively you grabbed it will cost different amounts. Generally it will add 5-20% to the cost of each grab(depending on prices).
If you were all explore you would pay nothing, which is fair and good for the game.
The cost structure will hurt FFO more than anything else and that will work to balance it compared to all the other strategies which the game could use(it wont make FFO bad or anything like that, so curb your expectations). But mostly it will drive up demand for units which have had low demand even long before clanGDI was implemented.

I was worried that cGDI would mess up the market, but it actually didn't. I think such a mechanism as I proposed would fix a long standing problem with unit demand even if it was not created by the implementation of cGDI.

Shweezy

Member
EE Patron
1132

Aug 16th 2023, 3:54:40

...or just remove CLAN GDI and sack up
Catch me on ir c

braden

Member
11,480

Aug 16th 2023, 12:03:00

If not enough defensive units, when you send the attack it will show a message similar to when you don't have enough oil for the number of jets wanting to be sent..

That could be interesting/fun

Turtle Crawler

Member
534

Aug 17th 2023, 20:27:03

There isn't actually much point to it (there is no need to ballance) because with the normalization of organized griefing, any one netting but not in clan gdi will be subject to far more damage than any cost. The greater the cost - the greater the incentive to make sure anyone not paying it is removed from the running. Because of this the only thing adding a cost does is remove from people the decision as to whether they wish to be limited by clan gdi or not.

mdevol

Member
3221

Aug 18th 2023, 21:14:18

So should regular GDI be free then too?
Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Detmer

Member
4234

Sep 23rd 2023, 3:37:56

This is probably intuitive to most, but fyi Clan GDI prevents you from attacking your own clan members.

Leto

Member
336

Oct 13th 2023, 3:39:49

Originally posted by Detmer:
This is probably intuitive to most, but fyi Clan GDI prevents you from attacking your own clan members.


Glad it didn't work this time

Detmer

Member
4234

Oct 17th 2023, 0:05:50

Originally posted by Leto:
Originally posted by Detmer:
This is probably intuitive to most, but fyi Clan GDI prevents you from attacking your own clan members.


Glad it didn't work this time


He would've deserved it.

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Oct 17th 2023, 15:29:46

I'm sitting here reading the posts on how clanGDI can be improved and I started laughing, this is equal to mechanics sitting on a table and brainstorming how they can improve a Delorean....you can't, it was a terribly engineered car......you can try to improve it......you may think it'll work.......but at the end of the day you still have a piece of fluff that looks kool......
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

BEM684

Member
124

Oct 17th 2023, 15:42:36

The Delorean will still be around at the end of time. But only if Doc Brown is real.

Prime

Member
135

Oct 17th 2023, 18:02:14

But the stainless steel construction makes the flux dispersal...

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Oct 17th 2023, 19:53:50

88 is the magic number!
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 11th 2024, 8:22:52

I am requesting an update on the testing of Clan GDI and any current results. @Qzjul Only

Edited By: Syko_Killa on Jan 11th 2024, 20:26:03
See Original Post
Do as I say, not as I do.

Shweezy

Member
EE Patron
1132

Jan 11th 2024, 16:06:44

Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
I am requesting an update on the testing of Clan GDI and any current results.


Sounds serious, drop everything you're doing guys, syko wants something
Catch me on ir c

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Jan 11th 2024, 18:30:08

Originally posted by Shweezy:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
I am requesting an update on the testing of Clan GDI and any current results.


Sounds serious, drop everything you're doing guys, syko wants something


fluff clanGDI
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 12th 2024, 15:09:19

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Shweezy:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
I am requesting an update on the testing of Clan GDI and any current results.


Sounds serious, drop everything you're doing guys, syko wants something


fluff clanGDI
I'm seriously offended by your blatant disrespect to me and other players who share similar views, you are an egregious person. I wish I could say you're 1 in a million but your more like a million to one, your ignorance matches the latter concept.
Do as I say, not as I do.

SuperFly

Member
4930

Jan 12th 2024, 15:42:52

The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
8999

Jan 12th 2024, 16:33:56

If done right, ClanGDI can add more depth to the game and satisfy everyone to a degree.

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
8999

Jan 12th 2024, 16:40:29

I don't think either view is good for the game between the purely:

(kill anything you want, any time you wish to, for any reason you wish to)
VS.
(you do not have to interact with any other alliance/ country in the game and have no repercussions for your actions both socially as well as in-game)

There is a balance we should reach to foster a game that can grow past the handful of vets left.

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 13th 2024, 6:49:10

Originally posted by SuperFly:
The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!
You should know my stance by now SF, shame on you if you don't. I love to war, I however do not appreciate seeing my alliance driven off the server.
Do as I say, not as I do.

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 13th 2024, 6:50:15

Originally posted by Requiem:
I don't think either view is good for the game between the purely:

(kill anything you want, any time you wish to, for any reason you wish to)
VS.
(you do not have to interact with any other alliance/ country in the game and have no repercussions for your actions both socially as well as in-game)

There is a balance we should reach to foster a game that can grow past the handful of vets left.

The player count is roughly the same as last couple sets, so good chance they are playing. I however a not.
Do as I say, not as I do.

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
8999

Jan 13th 2024, 17:55:23

Yeah, but that prob won't last long-term IMO.

Edited By: Requiem on Jan 13th 2024, 18:03:48

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Jan 13th 2024, 21:20:47

Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Shweezy:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
I am requesting an update on the testing of Clan GDI and any current results.


Sounds serious, drop everything you're doing guys, syko wants something


fluff clanGDI
I'm seriously offended by your blatant disrespect to me and other players who share similar views, you are an egregious person. I wish I could say you're 1 in a million but your more like a million to one, your ignorance matches the latter concept.


Learn diplomacy, actually, tell your shepherd I said so.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Jan 13th 2024, 21:22:31

Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by SuperFly:
The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!
You should know my stance by now SF, shame on you if you don't. I love to war, I however do not appreciate seeing my alliance driven off the server.


But you're ok driving others off the server by changing the very essence of the game you supposedly love....seems legit...
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 14th 2024, 2:50:29

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by SuperFly:
The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!
You should know my stance by now SF, shame on you if you don't. I love to war, I however do not appreciate seeing my alliance driven off the server.


But you're ok driving others off the server by changing the very essence of the game you supposedly love....seems legit...
Right because making non agressive pacts with people drives them away from the game..
Do as I say, not as I do.

KoHeartsGPA

Member
EE Patron
29,401

Jan 14th 2024, 3:00:16

Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by SuperFly:
The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!
You should know my stance by now SF, shame on you if you don't. I love to war, I however do not appreciate seeing my alliance driven off the server.


But you're ok driving others off the server by changing the very essence of the game you supposedly love....seems legit...
Right because making non agressive pacts with people drives them away from the game..


What your saying is making no sense, your leadership sucks at diplomacy, when you suck a diplomacy you pay consequences, that's even true in the real world, so instead of upgrading your leadership you opt for changing the game mechanics and you wonder why people are upset.... LOL WOW
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Syko_Killa

Member
4998

Jan 15th 2024, 7:14:19

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by SuperFly:
The minority of remaining players want clangdi.
Go play express and primary. You have country gdi there protecting you from detah!
You should know my stance by now SF, shame on you if you don't. I love to war, I however do not appreciate seeing my alliance driven off the server.


But you're ok driving others off the server by changing the very essence of the game you supposedly love....seems legit...
Right because making non agressive pacts with people drives them away from the game..


What your saying is making no sense, your leadership sucks at diplomacy, when you suck a diplomacy you pay consequences, that's even true in the real world, so instead of upgrading your leadership you opt for changing the game mechanics and you wonder why people are upset.... LOL WOW
Arguing with you is an enormous waste of my time, so is this game. Enjoy it.
Do as I say, not as I do.

Requiem

Member
EE Patron
8999

Jan 27th 2024, 16:46:06

TTT

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Jan 27th 2024, 18:58:51

Originally posted by Requiem:
If done right, ClanGDI can add more depth to the game and satisfy everyone to a degree.


Agreed! you can pm me in discord, I'm trying to get people to discuss what that would look like.
Finally did the signature thing.

MrEd

Member
52

Jan 28th 2024, 0:13:42

Originally posted by qzjul:
As some of you who hang out in discord might be aware, I've been trying to resurrect & finalize Pang's Clan GDI mechanic, partly to shake things up a bit, and partly as a result of some concerns about dwindling player time, which I get, personally having not a lot of time to commit.

So what does Clan GDI do?:

1) Clans in Clan GDI have a Y in the GDI column in the Clan list
2) Countries in Clans in Clan GDI:
- a) Cannot attack countries in clans that
-------- have not attacked them personally (all reset) OR
-------- have not attacked their clan recently (72 hours)
- b) Cannot attack countries in ANY CLAN without declaring war on that country
3) ALL COUNTRIES
- a) Cannot attack countries in Clans in Clan GDI that
-------- have not attacked them personally (all reset) OR
-------- have not attacked their clan recently (72 hours)
- b) Cannot attack countries in Clans in Clan GDI without declaring war on that country (if it's been more than 72 hours since last hit by that country)

Clans that JOIN Clan GDI *may not leave* for 10 days; and Clans that *LEAVE* Clan GDI may not rejoin for 10 days.

(NB: We originally were planning MMR requirements, but frankly that seems to have been the sticking point of all of this and why it was not finished 4 years ago, so for now, we will proceed without that.)

Note, spyops are not currently included in this mechanic. I will add that if it seems necessary in a coming reset.


I hope you all enjoy the new changes!

Best Regards,

- qzjul, Pang & the rest of the Dev Team



Wow. When does it start?