Hi All,

Thanks to many suggestions and a large amount of feedback, there'll be a new changeset for the first time in a while.

Firstly, a couple of things pointed out for the general base game that lead to undesirable play styles, that will apply to all servers, and then a change for Clan GDI, which only currently applies to Alliance.

1) Military Expenses Multiplier change:
This was a change that probably will allow me to change the bots for the better, and change some dynamics in general. The military expenses multiplier will be changed from:

(1+NW/(200,000,000)) → 36/(24+ln(NW+100,000))

This will result in effectively decreasing the cost per unit as NW goes up, call it due to scales of efficiency.

2) CS Destruction will be reduced, because they make wars on big land reset-wrecking.

a) AB CS destruction will decrease from 0.2389% to 0.1000%
b) BR CS destruction will decrease from 0.04% to 0.01%
c) CM CS destruction will decrease from 0.0022% to 0.0011%

NB-1: Those have many other multipliers attached to them
NB-2: This seems like this is a common theme, as the line for CS in BR's currently looks like this: 'perc_lost' => ($this->changeset >= 22 ? 0.004 : ($this->changeset >= 16 ? 0.04 : ($this->changeset >= 12 ? 0.11945 : 0.2389))),


3) Clan GDI this one is more complicated.

The initial alpha version of Clan GDI was effectively an all-or-nothing free opt-out of war. This is not *entirely* what I wanted, but was a first step given the feedback I was getting.

Thus some changes:

- Clans will have a "Defence Account", denominated in $
- Countries in Clan GDI will pay 1% of "GDP" (NW + Expenses), to this account each turn
- When Ranks are calculated, total Server Growth Rate (SGR) is calculated based on Server TNW growth (say 0.05%); the Defence Account will be multiplied by this growth rate (as in it was being invested)

- Clans >= 5 members can Declare War on other Clans that are >= 5 members (whether or not either are in Clan GDI)
-> the "Defending Clan" will have 48 hours to Accept War or Surrender (after which it is auto-Accepted)
--> If they Accept:
---- The Defence Account is given to each country in the Defending Clan
--> If they Surrender:
---- The Defence Account is zeroed, and given instead to the Attacking Clan
---- 50% of max FA amounts (including on-market goods) are transferred from each Surrendering-Clan country, pooled, and split amongst the Surrendered-To-Clan countries
-> If war is proceeding, either clan may surrender at any time, triggering the payout.
-> If war is proceeding, either clan may make an offer of peace at any time, which may be accepted at any time by the other clan
-> Clans may not declare war on a clan they have previously declared war upon. (Or that >= 20% of their members have been at war with via Clan Wars to avoid weird re-tag loopholes)
-> Clans may Declare Victory once their TNW exceeds 5x their opponents, ending the war without settlement

As always let me know your thoughts.

The Clan GDI changes are highly experimental stil (I'm still working on things technically), but hopefully this will address various parties concerns.

Thanks,

qzjul

if a clan is engaged in a war, are other clans prohibited from warring them?


for example, clan of 30 people declares on clan of 9 people to shake them down of money late in the set. but clan of 9 people don't want to give in to that jackwagonry and have 2 different clans of 9 people willing to take on that 30 clan as a group, is that possible? or is it 1 clan at a time?

hey qz how about upping the number of players in team server per team to 10 or 20?
[quote poster=Requiem; 52139; 1021187]
[quote poster=Requiem; 52139; 1020830]

Nope, 1a needs fixing first, then whatever time is left he'll read up on that :P

I’m also curious how payouts and defense accounts will payout when multiple clans are at war, ie. 2v1 4v4 etc

I'm am wanting to know about countries that keeps their stock on the market and how that would affect the payouts.

My first thought is that it needs a condition to win the war without that victory being accepted.

Also not quite sure, but will the defending clan get the attacking clans reserve too if they win?

For any wondering, changes that impact all servers take place at the start of the next upcoming round. Alliance being the first.

Cool. All your bases and resources are up for grabs

Honestly I don't read much, I haven't seen any of these requests; also I wasn't reallly involved with the design of Team, so I've been hesitant to mess with it. I've only ever played alliance myself. Wouldn't be opposed to that though.

Please do it would be awesome!!!

Qz besides this, did you also add colorization for bots on the scores list? This is a much needed enhancement so thank you in advance. Surprised you didn’t mention here if it’s part of the update.

Ah, the colorization is only once the set is over. Lame. 😒

Qzjul are you accepting volunteer devs? If so, what's the process? I'm volunteering.

Added mechanism; defending clan would get the reserve if the attacker surrendered, yes.

We've had difficulty onboarding people partially because the codebase is complicated. Right now the process is, make a significant number of improvements and modernizations to the NPC codebase, and then I'll notice & bring you into the fold. (it is open source after all!)

This would demonstrate:
a) competency in PHP
b) understanding of the underlying stuff
c) some commitment to long-term dev

Can you elaborate on modernizations to the NPC codebase?

Where do I do that?

Are you referring to the bot code?

But what if they never surrendered, just went inactive or left the tag?

He is. Instructions are on the AI Development forum section

Yea, the bot code

Then eventually you'd be > 5x their TNW

TC does raise an interesting point. Most wars are decided inside the first 2 weeks. Perhaps the side with the highest ANW is declared victor after 2 weeks? Not my best suggestion but it's also the first time I've really thought about it. The declare victory option should negate his fear of inactive tags, but I understand the sentiment.

Super excited about the expenses fix. Literally can't wait to play an MBR netting for old times sake. Definitely coming outta retirement to play this, and even war in a basic sense is improved by the CS change. Love love love. Did lite testing of the expenses formula and got a small grin on my face. Thanks so much for those first 2 changes. I'm pumped.

Primary concern re: ClanGDI for me is when 3+ tags are involved in a war. For example, if 5 clans of 7 members declare war on 1 clan of 40 members, will that clan be able to declare victory over each individual tag being 5x their size? And on the other hand, if the group of 5 tags wins, will they be able to declare victory despite none being 5x the size individually?

Don't hate the idea of playing thru a set or 2, tho, to see what needs to be fixed regarding 3+ clans involved in a war. I have more questions than suggestions at this point, so they might be better answered just playing thru a couple rounds.

Awesome changeset tho QZ. You kinda nailed it.

@ Qzjul So if your alliance has 5 members or less, another alliance who is 6+ members cannot declare war on you? I would like some clarification on that.

Thank you!

Clans of less than 5 shouldn't be eligible for ClanGDI to close the loophole of a 20 member tag tagging as 5 tags of 4 members to reap the benefits without the intangibles.

So I will take it that it is something we can do to get around having to pay homage to warheads.

Nice changes Jules!

If I was a netter with these rules, I would not use ClanGDI and would instead use diplomacy to avoid paying anyone. It isn't that difficult to be nice to people...for most of us.

Consider it an "asshole tax" :)

Yeah, because that's worked so well in the past.

Ahh man. Take the W. You can now talk all the crap you want netting now for the low cost of getting called a surrendering coward and 1% of your GDP lol.

"50% of max FA amounts (including on-market goods) are transferred from each Surrendering-Clan country, pooled, and split amongst the Surrendered-To-Clan countries"

does this mean 50% of the max that you could FA someone? ..So 5% of your troops, jets, turrets, tanks, bushels, and cash?

Since the FA now includes stock, I recommend caping it based on the corresponding potential of the other clan, otherwise you're going to see war clans make a bunch of different combinations of 6 player teams (each one only uses 4 players), and late game netting clans will find no protection from clan GDI. Without having to put skin in the game it's a "heads I win tails you lose" situation.

Honestly including stock is a breaking change and shouldn't be implemented, probably best to remove bushels and cash. It also gives a strange preference to stocking oil, so really the FA part is probably unworkable in general.

-1 for TC’s suggestion by the way.

I think the new changes are decent enough to bring some sort of diplomacy back into the game. Don’t want warring clans to come take your stock? Then you better start building relationships. Late game netting clans need protection? Partner with a warring clan for it.

Spending the last several weeks hurling insults at other players doesn’t really help. Some of these guys have memories like an elephant. Smarter, richer, use a calculator, enroll in a community college are some examples of the insults that were used. Good luck though.

Also we should codify pacts into the game so people who break them can't grief.

I think without including market goods, the FA part would be irrelevant. I don't see anyone pushing a surrender button without most goods being stocked first otherwise. Given that near 0 military is used/on hand under much of the current constructs, this portion of spoils would provide nearly 0 value without market goods.

Prior to the two Alliance Safe Space rounds, the alternative to being attacked could result in a destroyed country, which seems far worse than what might become of a later war under the current changeset where one might still be able to surrender before a country is destroyed and lose far less stock.

I could see an argument for capping the FA spoils somewhere around what would be the opposing side equivalent (can't earn more than what you would've given up had you lost instead). Or perhaps a limit on very late wars (no decs in last X days maybe). Perhaps thats what you meant by "potential" but I read it more as value of potential finish. If you have several clans declaring war on you sequentially in the game's current active population, there could be some underlying issues contributing to that in my opinion.

Yeah they need to be capped, the system should be setup so you would only declare a war that you think you could win, rather than just a war to damage the other party. If the idea is profiting from war then it should profit a defending clan in war sufficient to justify doing it etc, not just the attacking clan.

And I like the idea of limiting late wars, no wars in the last two weeks or something like that. Or maybe like how the humanitaians window limits near the end, as the set progresses that 5x ratio should decrease.

When I first thought of the "countdown to war mechanic," that's actually specifically what I wanted addressed. Obviously it helps protect against blindsides/suicides which is nice, but a small tag or suicider bunch with no intention of being able to win should have the damage they do massively mitigated by the larger tag, and having the larger tag involved in the first strike should make a declaration of victory eminent. In theory, you should be able to declare victory in the early hours in a lopsided affair.

While it doesn't eliminate the ability to grief completely, it should be rather easy to win those types of war very quickly, and gain a sum of money for damage caused. It's more of a nuisance than a set ruiner.

And again, the onus has always been on the players to work SOME diplomacy to protect themselves. I can think of reasons for just about every suicider ive ever had, and whether or not I agree with the merits, I got hit because people were mad at me. You shouldn't be protected if you want to act like a big jerk all the time. It's completely fair to suffer some grief for bad politics as diplomacy is part of the game.

Also, when QZ and I discussed onboarding pacts into the game and making them ACTUALLY UNBREAKABLE, I think he liked the idea, but kinda kicked the can on it to focus on building a good ClanGDI system. Not saying it is part of the plan, but it has definitely been talked about as a good idea and something he hopes to do in the future since it's a larger programming commitment then a simple mechanics change. Leaders would need a whole new portal etc.

Clan GDI is still in place, the anarchy of the game is gone, the game is fundamentally changed and wrecked. LaF and qzjul have ended the game.

Safe space for Diplomacy fail

I think he is trying to even the playing field out so that the war players are happy and the netters are happy. From the looks of things, that may never happen, qzjul has a truly thankless job.

I wonder if categorizing players/styles into two distinct and bipolar groups was ever the original intention.

This

I don't think most netters categorize themselves as pansies and make generalizations about wardogs tbh. Most of the old heads just like running turns and attacking stuff if need be.

I've gotten pissed and flipped a lid while netting several times after getting hit, but it wasn't like I was unwilling to return the favor. I'd wager a guess that only a very small part of the community that just happens to have a very loud voice to the devs feels that way.

Alliance has always been a war server, as it should be. Why people are obsessed with individual netting on a team server I will never understand. That’s what primary and tournament are for.

With clan GDI, last set proved there is literally no alliance in alliance server anymore. I feel bad for Qz for wasting time developing this clan GDI “fix”

If I recall correctly Qz in his own words told me tagging up is just for status and bragging and nothing to do with what he wants for the server

Clans >= 5 members can Declare War on other Clans that are >= 5 members (whether or not either are in Clan GDI)
-> the "Defending Clan" will have 48 hours to Accept War or Surrender (after which it is auto-Accepted)

Where is the ingame mechanism that allows a tag admin to declare war on other clans?

HEY!
PEOPLE!
Take your 5th grade school lunchroom battles to another thread.

This is a thread about the damn Changeset, and you are burying my legit question.

GROW THE FK UP


I repeat my question

Clans >= 5 members can Declare War on other Clans that are >= 5 members (whether or not either are in Clan GDI)
-> the "Defending Clan" will have 48 hours to Accept War or Surrender (after which it is auto-Accepted)

Where is the ingame mechanism that allows a tag admin to declare war on other clans?

I have two more questions

- Clans will have a "Defence Account", denominated in $
- Countries in Clan GDI will pay 1% of "GDP" (NW + Expenses), to this account each turn

Does that mean ALL clans will have a Defence Account but only countries in Clan GDI will pay the 1% of GDP?

And:

- Clans >= 5 members can Declare War on other Clans that are >= 5 members (whether or not either are in Clan GDI)
-> the "Defending Clan" will have 48 hours to Accept War or Surrender (after which it is auto-Accepted)

So, whether or not a tag is in Clan GDI, it cannot be surprise attacked? There will always be 48 hours to respond regardless of Clan GDI status?

upvote.

These questions are far more pertinent.