so we shut everything down and throw our economy into a depression, is this worth the lives saved or will what happens to families over the next few years be worse. More families living in poverty and a government that has spent beyond it means and has nothing in the tank to help

I value my mother today over what your bank account might look like tomorrow.

You can't really put a price on life (at least I cannot), so yes its worth it.

I partly grew up in a third world country, this fluff would come around every decade, it is not the end of the world but it will be for you if you catch it and can't survive, this is an easy answer, fluff yeah it's worth the sacrifice and maybe just maybe we can learn a good lesson from it, economy recovers, the great depression did end, once our life ends, it's over, no economy can bring those who vanished back.

They never should've been eating skunk to begin with.

Let's walk to a meat market in China with millions of people and we eat koala? Don't put it on ice and salt and try to cure the meat, no! We let it resonate whilst the communist Chinese lie to the world and infect the planet. If ever we shouldn't them chinks out. Let's the nips kill them all.

Trudeau is dumber than asphalt but still maintains I'm the uneducated one?

Global economy strongly suggests otherwise.

fluff the third world that isn't interested in becoming the first world.

old star trek quote the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. There is a lot of truth to this and i am not fully convinced it is that bad. 98% of people suffer no lasting effects, care should be taken to keep it out of nursing homes and at risk people should use caution.

The usa has never trusted Russia so i am not sure why they fell into bed with a commie China. I blame the start of this on Nixon bowing to mao
On February 21, 1972, Chinese leader Mao Zedong and US Nixon met to normalize relations between their two countries. Their meeting in Beijing was brief but it set the scene for what has become the most important economic relationship in the world.
Why we thought one would be better than the other

Yes, but we the healthy can be carrying the virus and then pass it to the unfortunate with weak immune systems, the issue is that this thing is invisible and we still don't fully understand it's outreach, doctors aren't even sure how long it survives without a host, I heard all kinds of speculation that It can live on a handrail anywhere from 9 to 21 days....and people can have it and not know it because their immune systems are silently fighting it thus not showing symptoms at all, some just a mild cold like symptoms, but still are highly contagious.

https://www.news.com.au/...da0cff4fc4d2c5e51706accb5

a cure?

Test trial phase if it's the one I heard about today, haven't clicked in the link yet...

that would be great!

Yeah that's a different one from the one I heard about today, very nice, I hope it is legit!

Yes Australia will save you all.

On a more serious note regarding the potential treatment Australia is developing, it is using 2 existing medicines which have already been approved for human use. They only need to conduct trials to ensure it works.

If it does work, it can be deployed very quickly.

Aussie Aussie Aussie, oi oi oi

Yay Australia

Tell everyone to stay home for 14 days and deposit money in my bank account based on what I reported in taxes last year (1/2 month worth). :D

Man farmer, you put an economic value on life? Everyone knows that the large scale, long-lasting economic ramifications that come from recessions have never lead to anyone dying, ever.

The least u can do for making Tom Hanks sick

Never trusted Russia? They were allies all through World War I until Russia exited the war in 1918 to deal with the revolution going on at home. Then, once World War I was over, the US and countries that are now members of NATO invaded Russia to intervene (or rather interfere) in their civil war. When the Bolsheviks won, the US and these Western countries withdrew, and this whole 'intervention' pretty much started the Cold War. Russia has had every right —not to trust— the United States. Hell, the United States even changed terms of agreements made after the fact and even rearmed Germany, despite the fact that they along with Britain, France and the Soviets agreed that Germany would never be allowed to do so. This prompted the Soviet Union in 1954 to apply for membership in NATO, specifically —because— they didn't want another war.

Check out the swine flu number of deaths and cases, Obama decided it wasn’t worth the economic hit to shut it down

Influenza...in the USA this season has attributed to 36,000 deaths...CDC numbers not mine. That's just "this season". And we didn't shut it down. I think the reason their doing it is because their scared fluffless because they don't know enough about this virus. China hiding things didn't help.

BigDog
Clowns with Guns
In Need of Toilet Paper

Ok, i'll try to speak clearly..

COVID-19 Has a death rate of about 3% if 100,000 people get it then 3% are going to die, almost no matter what you do sick/elderly etc. BUT its the 15% of them that will need hospitalization that is the issue, if you keep them home then they add to the mortality numbers, which is bad. so 15% of 100k is 15,000 people all needing an isolated hospital bed with 1:1 nursing staff.. which is JUST NOT going to happen in most countries. China did all they could to stop the infection spreading as bad as it did, they shut borders, they built a hospital in 10 days, they deployed every medic they had to fight a war against the virus and they are now winning, and life will return to normal soon enough..

But will America? sacrifice all to do that as well? Will Australia? will any western country that hasn't had to fight a contagious disease like this be able to put their people above their money and actually do what it needed?

Probably not.

Back to hospital beds, this is why flattening the curve is the only option. If you can decrease the cases per day to a manageable amount then you can fight back and hopefully not loose extra people along the way. Because it's not just COVID-19 patients in hospitals that need beds, it's also the guy down the road who's had a heart attack, or the kid who got hit by a car. Those patients will die also if their is no ICU beds for them.

Bug is right.
Look at what is happening in Italy. their numbers are out of whack because they have an old population admittedly (60% of their population is over 40, and 25% or thereabouts is over 65), but their high fatality rate (about 8% at present) is less because of that and more because their health system is utterly overwhelmed.
They are literally having to choose which severe cases can have the treatments and specialised machinery neccessary, and who can't, and will therefore die.
Here in Western Australia for example, we have a total of 250 oxygen ventilators, with 50 more on the way. these are actively neccessary for that 5% of the absolute worst cases. this isn't the 20% of cases that are severe, just the absolute worst.
Even if we assumed a 1% extreme case rate, being extra generous, any more than 25000 cases of coronavirus means that someone is going to die here, not because of the disease, but because we simply won't have the equipment to save them.
And that's BEFORE we factor in that other people are still critically ill, and require ventilators for other purposes.
They also can't be shared whilst needed either.
Currently we have 31 confirmed cases (WA only. the rest of aus is close to 500 now, with NSW picking up like another 60 cases just today). However, we (WA only again)are currently ONLY testing those who have come in from overseas, or who have had direct confirmed demonstrable contact with someone who is actively demonstrated to have coronavirus. which means that we are effectively NOT testing for community transmission at all. Indeed, we are actively turning people away from testing, because of testing kit hortages.
Also for the record, the rate is only 3.4% (at present) because of places like South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, who have all done serious epidemics with SARS and MERS in the recent past, and as a result, have the skills and experience to cope properly. The US on the other hand, simply doesn't.
a) because the last epidemic this bad for the US was back in 1918/19, b) because Trump has bungled the US response to this from the outset, and c) because he fired your specialist pandemic response team back in 2018, and d) because too many of you literally don't take this seriously.
To put it into a better perspective for you, the mortality rate on actual influenza is 0.06%. roughly. the LOWEST death rate for Covid19, which is in South Korea, is 0.6%. that's 10x the rate at which people die from the flu. in italy, at 8%, thats better than 133x the rate.
even at 1%, that's literally 1 in every 100 people. that's someone that YOU know directly that will likely die from it. at 3.4%, it's about 1 in every 30 people, which means multiple people you directly know who are likely to die from it. And those numbers jump in those over 50, and over 60 in particular. over 60, it's something like a 15-18% mortality rate, which is down to somewhere between 1 in 7 and 1 in 5 people roughly dying from it.

https://www.cdc.gov/...y-in-season-estimates.htm

lets use the low numbers. 36 million cases, 22000 deaths. that equals a 0.06% mortality. even the best mortality rate for Coronavirus is an order of magnitude worse than that. That's why everything is being shut down.

Most cases aren't diagnosed, so the 3% death rate isn't real. . . it will easily be less than 1%.

In the US no one under 55 has died:
https://www.cnn.com/...-states-deaths/index.html

Quarantine the elderly/at risk and have the rest of the population carry on with caution.

A normal pandemic has about a 1.5 year shelf life. 60% get it, become immune and then there aren't enough carriers to propagate the disease. Honestly this is the best case scenario for the at risk people. You can't eliminate this without a vaccine.

In the mean time the world jumps off a cliff into a recession and a lot of people will suffer . . . and the at risk people are going to get it eventually.

well said, weedie!

btw, hi, i love you

also, is this farmer guy the new cerberus?

My son passed at 34 from Influenza January 2018.

the 2017/18 influenza season was really bad :(

NTL: the number of diagnosed cases doesn't directly factor in to the number of total cases, this is true, it's usual a little behind. BUT. In the case of the countries with the lowest mortality rates, they actually are pretty well on the money, because they ARE keeping good track of the numbers, as they have done significantly more testing than anyone else.

Drow, I don't think it's a little behind, if around 80% don't have symptoms it seems plausible that that there are 4x as many cases as documented (at least, that doesn't include mild symptoms where people don't think to get tested) as these people have no reason to be tested. I think you can divide by 4 conservatively the current mortality rate.

The other factor to keep in mind is that different health care systems are going to have drastically different mortality rates. Germany is currently running 0.3% . . .

Germany, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, Sweden, Norway, Denmark are all under 1%.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Personally, I think when all is said & done in a good health care country we're going to be well under 0.5% mortality.

Sorry to hear that! That really sucks. Stay safe with Coronavirus.

Thx Req.

So sorry Hempman



Ok, what kills me the most and I saw this coming was the fact that so many times they have told folks to be prepared in situations like this and disasters. Emergency Supplies, Emergency Funds etc. But folks just tended to ignore it. If you go to Ready.gov they have had a list of what to get for years. I am just annoyed folks ignored an emergency plan. I hope they learn from this.

your hope is futile, once this is pandemic is over most ppls forget it after few months and when next crisis (whatever it is) comes they are f'ed up again.

I'm betting I already had it in January. Would have died without intravenous fluids as I got very dehydrated. So if beds were full and already taken, what is no big deal now, woulda been death. That's what the fear is about, as already said by bug and others. If its believed that the entire population will eventually get this virus (they will), then staging is the priority, while trying to slow the spread and prep for each wave.
In the end though, the result of this will see an economic boom. Stock markets will rebound, so act accordingly at that time. We just need to continue to also keep our eyes on other political situations where all of this can be used to the advantage of the nefarious.

Two of the congress men have it, if it gets lose in congress that will be like turning it lose in a nursing home.

Not to a fluff, but if anyone deserves to get it, it'd be political scums.

esp. those who used inside info and sold their stocks before market crashed.

I hope you have basis for this claim...

news says that few senators have sold their stocks (sold ~month ago) before market crashed and allegedly 1 said to public no need to panic and privately to his business buddies he said everything is going to hell. 1 senator bought citrix stocks before it's stock price rocketed.

A month ago they cashed out at the (at the time) highest it's ever been?
A few senators are smart enough to buy low and sell high?

One senator telling his business one thing and rhe public another thing should make it very easy for you to remember the name of that one senator

Also if you'd bother learning how English words are placed together to create a sentence, which in turn conveys information, you'd understand that "news reports say few senators have sold their stocks" is saying that not very much insider trading is happening within the Senate.

The opposite of your "they cheated they knew they stole murca is bad harumph!"

(Also: "the news says". I should've just used that.)

Richard Burr
Kelly Loeffler

One was one of the three senators that voted against the STOCK Act of 2012, and the other is the wife of the chairman of the NYSE. I'll let you do the googlizing of articles. Enjoy!

You know I don't know how to google :(

2 out of 100 I suppose does make a government conspiracy. And likely the whole government should be removed.

You shouldn't be allowed to make money in any way other than the salary paid by the tax payers. After you leave office you aren't allowed to make any money based off of what you did in Congress.

Both parties. Nobody is allowed to run for office or serve on a board or work anywhere other than a self sustainable farm.

Diane Feinstein too, why did you leave her out?, lock them all up if they committed crimes!

https://youtu.be/Uo8WQ_5_uH0

4 reportedly sold stock before the market chaos.

Not available in Canada. Racists.

Either way when you're elected no money other than salary from your position. If while in office you were appropriations committee? Afterwards, you don't get to make money from any industry involved with decisions you made "to benefit the people"

They're all corrupt and need to held accountable.