Here is what primeval's post should say

"Clearly, there are alternatives to using all 16 countries to kill.. But few countries will be successful in a war attacking separate targets and will certainly not compete with those countries that are using all 16 countries to kill 1 country in 1-2 minutes. Taking a stance against using all 16 countries to kill opens up the option to actually play the game with some sort of player interactionm where your country has a chance to live for more than a minute and you can actually stonewall. But that wont get you far against someone using all 16 of their countries to target 1 country


Personally I think an alliance that does this should be at the top of the hate list and people should target them. I do not believe that this game was created for the purpose of being killed in a minute, or having 16 countries with full missiles and turns taking out 10 countries solo.

All aspects of this issue have been discussed time and time again. "

why do ppl still whine about top feeding like it still exists? lol

I would entertain the idea of something along the lines of land:land if DR was banned as a whole.

Your argument flops for various reasons, Drinks.

On an unrelated topic, I believe you hit into my war.

Your saying my argument that takes the micky out of yours flops. Grats for reading too deeply into a post that is using your wording to take the micky out of your argument


But there is no flaw in my proper argument that ill stop self farming and DRing when warrers stop using 16 countries to kill 1 country.

The game allows 16 countries to be played by 1 person. Warrers use it to achieve as many kills/hits as they can and win wars. While netters try to achieve the highest nw. So i choose to use my countries in that way. If i wanted to run independent countries then id go to alliance server.

"But there is no flaw in my proper argument that ill stop self farming and DRing when warrers stop using 16 countries to kill 1 country."


Or when warrers help you DR yourself with a few extra GS :P

Someone finally said it. Tell the man what he's won, Jonny!

If its okay to GS your country into DR when it is self farming, why is it not okay to GS your country into DR after it makes a grab?



P.S. I still think its wrong for countries that are significantly smaller than all-explore countries to expect 1:1 retals when they have stayed artificially small previous to their grab. Intentionally staying small prior to a grab indicates that you are not trying to grow, thus your attack is not for growth, but is just to be a douchebag.

Actually I agree with Rockman, lol. Well said.

so many people do things in this game for no reason other than being a douche bag and it really, really bothers me.

(waiting for somebody to tell me i played like a douche for eight years :P)

bonus @!

I agree with the first part Rockman. I see no real difference. Proponents of the DR will argue that the difference is the impending retal if you GS after making a grab rather than DRing yourself as a deterrent (you aren't actually owed any acres...you just have to find them elsewhere).

And you are right that instances like the one you mentioned regarding all-explore landgrabs happen on this server. However, I can say that I almost always grab larger-land countries around my networth - thats a smart grab in my opinion (depending on military tech of course.) I don't purposely keep myself small to hit those countries. Its not like I scour the scores list, find your countries and wait days and days for you to grow bigger so I can piss you off while grabbing. The fact remains that you will often get better net gains grabbing those similar-networth, high-land countries instead of spending all of your turns exploring those acres at a certain point.

I think the alliance and primary servers tend to rot peoples brain when it comes to landgrabbing. Not all landgrabs are an act of war or a personal attack on you or your clan specifically. Maybe you just have a tasty looking country...

The only time I do it to be a fluff is when I know that a particular alliance uses DR as a deterrent. I will catch a country right at the end of his DR, sitting on a huge chunk of land with nothing but spies. I'll get nice gains, always net because of ghost acres after the retal and get the satisfaction of hitting a player that goes out of his way to abuse the system to keep his acres on no military -> which is rare since my alliance stays in war.

here is the difference.
everyone wants killing to be on an even field, where skill reigns supreme. not unintended manipulation of code.

there are unofficial rules that warring clans "must" follow.
IE. gang bangs are almost NEVER tolerated.
tag jumping is not tolerated.
FA help is not tolerated.
1 sided fights generally are not tolerated. (ie, NBK at 410 country's hiting ares)
ect..

but netters, can do ANYTHING and its totally fine. but then you whine when people think unintended use of codding is unfair play.

Maybe FFA shouldnt have any of those unofficial rules:p It is a 'free-for-all' after all..

Back in the day we didnt even have to worry about this crap, cause the #1 country would be suicided every other day by random newbs.

1:1 is an unofficial rule, as is land:land. All retal policies, are unofficial rules. So Havoc, should we get rid of all retal policies, and everyone just retals as they see fit?

Popcom - netters have restrictions, too. You can't two-step, you can't grab & GS yourself into DR, you can't do land:land retals, etc.

Ive love a anyone can do anything they want thing going on! Stuff would degenerate into a war pretty fast, but it would be a fun one!

All clans are always welcome to retal as they see fit, as with any portion of gameplay - like DRing yourself while self farming. But you must also be prepared to get whats coming to you if someone doesn't like it.

Stop trying to be like tyrants and forcing your play style upon others when it doesnt affect you.

What i do is stick to myself and not bother anyone else. If you want land grabbing and land trading then do that with other people who also want that. Sure if i forget to DR then hit me cause ill be fat, but there is no reason to stop me from using DR and self farming.

And popcom.

Its not a coding error. People FA chained and self farmed in the past. So if EE didnt want it, they knew it was available and would have coded a prevention in from the start of FFA server.

"Stop trying to be like tyrants and forcing your play style upon others when it doesnt affect you."

Yes, us saying something on the forums is being tyrants?
You do realise we could just say we will kill any country that self farm DRs, now that would be a tyrant.

Now you consider a debate on the forums is us forcing a policy down your throat, being cruel dictators?
You really have no clue :/

You all talk about stopping self farming. But its clear people enjoy it. So the only way you have of stopping it is to war those who do it.

How can you not see that lots of people who play FFA enjoy this game for a different reason to you. And what we do with our 16 countries doesnt even affect you because we stick to ourselves.

Hmmm War, good idea!

I'd be okay with not GSing into DR if people allowed L:L in certain circumstances, but I don't see the point in that..

There are always gaps in DRs .. certainly not foolproof

Fair enough, might as well hit em 3 times if they let it up to get max acres!

@Drinks

The code will never be changed because the Developers are netters and are biased on the subject of DR. If it doesn't benefit them, they won't change it. They will respond to any suggestions of change with the same response they alway say:

"Its not unfair. Because anyone can do it, and the Free For All servers purpose is to allow people to play the game ANY way they want".



What if we had Developers that were Warriors instead of Netters?

What if there was coding in the game that started every country with 25 of each type missile and there was no GDI or Humanitarians on the FFA Server? Would you complain about it to the Developers after your top country was turned into a parking lot by a string of 200k NW countries? Would you ask for the code to be changed?


What if the Developers told you "Its not unfair. Because anyone can do it, and the Free For All servers purpose is to allow people to play the game ANY way they want".


Would that upset you? Would you start to revolt against those Developers and claim they are Biased? Would you use that part of the game coding to your advantage just because you could? or would you become vocal in trying to get it eliminated? Would you make suggestions to try and give yourself some protection?




Unfortunately though, the Game Developers and people like you only see 1 side of things. You all can't wrap your head around the fact that DR is unfair to everyone in the game besides yourself.


You are just lucky that the Game Developers share your View on these things. If I was a Game Developer on this server, you'd know what its like to be in our shoes. Complaining and fluffing daily about how netgainers are getting shafted.

I'd support banning intentional DRs as long as other alliances would accept our jetter policies without question.

If I'm running low-defense countries with fluffloads of land and I make myself easy to break, I don't deserve my land.

If I'm defending my land well, by having enough turrets/tanks/troops in order to prevent someone with a normal distribution of military to break me and it requires someone to specifically target me with a heavy jetter, then that's not really good netting, that's trying to ruin someone else's set or make a point with a grab.

Basically, if you're one of the fattest in FFA or in your clan and/or you don't defend your land, you have no right to complain when you get hit. But if you stay off the radar and defend your land well, it sucks when someone with an obnoxious ratio of jets:turrets and low land comes after you.

"You all can't wrap your head around the fact that DR is unfair to everyone in the game besides yourself."

replace DR with topfeeding.. oh, wait.. that's right..

Indeed.

see killing is so much simpler!

You just said you were a warrior/warrer. Meaning you dont give a fluff about your nw. So how does me DRing effect your hit count and kill count. It doesnt. So why are you 'complaining and fluffing daily'.

DRing doesnt effect warrers. So why are warrers the ones i see that are soooo anti-self farming and anti-DR

"DR is unfair to everyone". DR is not unfair to anyone. Cause what i do doesnt effect anyone elses country. By me self DRing im putting as much impact on your netting game as someone who isnt playing on the server. You can just pretend im not there. You would finish at 100m nw whether i was in the server or not. Plus you are a publically voiced warrer, so it doubley doesnt effect you

I think most netters will generally agree with most other netters, and most warrers will generally agree with most other warrers. And most netters and warrers will agree to disagree with eachother. :p

Seriously Dedly. I just re-read your argument. And in no way is it relevant.

"The Developers are netters and are biased on the subject of DR." Sorry that netters wont change a coding rule that only effects netters.

So havoc.

If the warrers war 4/5 sets.

And the netters net 4/5 sets.

Why are the warrers complaining about their 1 random set that they decide to try and net. When netters spend 80% of their time netting, and like it how it is. (generalisation)

Yep pretty greedy of us, lets war 5/5 sets instead.

@Drinks

If your allowed to DR your countries after self farming. Shouldn't I be allowed to grab you, then DR myself so you can't make a retal?



My issue has always been that Self Farming is more benefitial than hitting other peoples countries. In a game of interaction between players with military units like Troops, Tanks, Spys, Jets and Turrets. I would hope that hitting other peoples countries would be the path to 250k acres. Instead, the only path to 250k acres is by hitting yourself.


That is what I feel is wrong. It goes against the spirit of the game. And in doing so, it is hurting the server. I want FFA server to have a ton of players. But the game mechanics are designed to keep you happy instead of making it fun for new players.

good, we'll netgain 5 out of 5 and we'll meet happily in the middle?

or rather, not meet unhappily in the middle :P

"If your allowed to DR your countries after self farming. Shouldn't I be allowed to grab you, then DR myself so you can't make a retal?"

If this is something you want to allow against yourself, where I hit you and then DR for your retal, I guess we're good. But something tells me you wouldn't allow that. So that point is moot.

Yeah cause i really said that didnt i K4F.

I said to let people who prefer to net and do it the majority of their time do an act (that is to selffarm/DR) that doesnt impact your finishing nw at all even when you do net.

why does "the spirit of the game" impact what u can do on other servers but not this one?

"hitting other peoples countries would be the path to 250k acres"

They call them retals?

You can intra tag farm in alliance, FA in alliance, Buyouts in alliance.

You can intra tag farm in team, FA in team, buyouts in team.

You can intra tag farm in FFA, FA in ffra, buyouts in FFA.


The Rule 'Spirit of the game' has not deleted anyone for those in any of those 3 servers.

If self farming wasn't allowed smurf, we'd farm untags and single man tags into the ground and drive new players away. Look at 1A

I plan to go one man tag next reset with strong defense and strong retallers. I will not be landtrading, I don't think, but depending on the amount of hits coming in from larger tags, I might be forced to start DR'ing.

But we'll see how it goes.

Lies, you're stuck with me.

ok fine, two man tag with a far lower anw than originally intended :(

FIRE is doing pretty good, being one of the smallest tags, as well as one that does not farm smaller tags and untags into the ground. So much for your stereotypes :P

I would seriously consider this.

killing is so much simplier...

look at any of the untaggeds and you'll see he's right