How exactly is O ally strength calc'd?

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 3rd 2010, 22:51:20

In dumbassese,is it:

If i were to send jets only on SS
your jets + your tech + gov bonus + 25% of allies jets(added separately and not to exceed 100% my strength)

ex
tyr 1.40% tech 1mil jets
1,000,000*1.4=1.4mil(me)
1,000,000*.25=250,000(ally1)
1,500,000*.25=375,000(ally2)
=2,025,000 total force amended to 2mil ?

ICQ 364553524
msn

dantzig

Member
528

Nov 3rd 2010, 23:12:52

And does ally government and/or weapons tech change their contribution?

e.g. ally has 1,000,000 jets, R gov't, and 110% weapons tech
Is contribution:
a) 1,000,000 * .25 = 250,000
b) 1,000,000 * .9 * .25 = 225,000
c) 1,000,000 * 1.1 * .25 = 275,000
d) 1,000,000 * .9 * 1.1 * .25 = 247,500

FoG

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 3rd 2010, 23:24:54

dantzig,i think the little info man,ingame now,once told me that allies tech don't count..
But maybe a dev can elaborate.

er..A, i think

Edited By: snawdog on Nov 3rd 2010, 23:31:22. Reason: er..A, i think
See Original Post

ICQ 364553524
msn

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 4th 2010, 20:58:00

allies techs nor govts don't count.

not sure but it might be what snaw said on his 1st post.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 4th 2010, 21:18:30

ttt

ICQ 364553524
msn

NOW3P

Member
6503

Nov 4th 2010, 21:24:09

best bet is to assume it's C :-P

~I wrote this with my penis~
http://i85.photobucket.com/...s/k48/jdbates/hobosig.jpg
FoG

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 4th 2010, 21:27:34

silly nowie rep with 110% weap is same as non-rep/dict w/o weap. :P

dantzig

Member
528

Nov 4th 2010, 22:03:14

Originally posted by Marshal:

silly nowie rep with 110% weap is same as non-rep/dict w/o weap. :P

Not true. It's actually 1% weaker!

FoG

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 4th 2010, 22:27:12

lol@danzig

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Nov 4th 2010, 22:45:12

say I'm a dict with 130 weaps and 2M jets and my ally is a rep with 120 weaps and 4M jets (1M help max).... then it's

1.25*1.30*2000000 = 3250000

total offence = 3250000 + 1000000

say I'm a dict with 130 weaps and 2M jets and my ally is a rep with 120 weaps and 500M jets.... then it's

1.25*1.30*2000000 = 3250000

total offence = 3250000 + 3250000

Edited By: qzjul on Nov 9th 2010, 22:15:17
See Original Post

Finally did the signature thing.

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 4th 2010, 23:59:03

I got lost..I see no scenario where a rep with 120 weaps and 500k jets would double your force..
[edit]

nvm..i read it wrong.
That still is not a yes/no answer to mine..but thanks..i think i got it.

Edited By: snawdog on Nov 5th 2010, 0:04:17
See Original Post

ICQ 364553524
msn

NOW3P

Member
6503

Nov 5th 2010, 0:15:08

Originally posted by Marshal:

silly nowie rep with 110% weap is same as non-rep/dict w/o weap. :P

yes - but that equation yields the highest break, which is therefore the safest equation to use when calculating forces to send :-P

~I wrote this with my penis~
http://i85.photobucket.com/...s/k48/jdbates/hobosig.jpg
FoG

dantzig

Member
528

Nov 5th 2010, 0:23:32

How to always break:
(1) Always spy then send 220% of opponent's defensive strength
(2) Spy, ally spy, do the calcs and send 120% of opponent's strength with allies

Never failed when I've used either method. Opponent total D-strength + 10% usually works but I've had that fail so I don't trust it.

FoG

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 5th 2010, 0:35:56

I aint worried about failing dantzig,my worries are over sending and just wanna know the true calc's.

ICQ 364553524
msn

dantzig

Member
528

Nov 5th 2010, 1:09:36

Do you know where the oversending penalty hits? 20% over what you need or more?

FoG

moronic1

Member
102

Nov 8th 2010, 22:43:44

Is it just me that don't get qzjul's calculation a few posts up?

snawdog

Member
2413

Nov 8th 2010, 23:05:56

Yea..it was not in 'dumbassese' as requested.

ICQ 364553524
msn

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 9th 2010, 19:46:27

so with ally having 1M jets attacker gets 100% of alliy's jets but with 500M jets gets only 65ish% of ally's jets.

*LOST*

p.s. I doubt any1 has 500M jets.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Nov 9th 2010, 21:12:43

there are two different calculations in my post, in order to explain it;

tell me exactly what part is confusing and i'll try to clarify

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 9th 2010, 21:28:48

1st attack ally has 1M jets and allied gets 100% of ally's jets.

2nd attack ally has 500M jets but allied gets only 65% of ally's jets.

How come on 1st attack 100% of allies jets are included but on 2nd attack not?

Shouldn't each ally provide only 20-25% of their army to help?

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Nov 9th 2010, 22:15:45

heh sorry my bad I was thinking 1M help; edited to reflect that

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 10th 2010, 20:32:46

so how many % allied gets from ally's jets on 2nd case? 25% still?

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Nov 12th 2010, 18:47:43

it's 25% of their forces, to a maximum of double your offence power =/

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 12th 2010, 21:12:53

good, then I want to see country with 500M jets. :P

moronic1

Member
102

Nov 13th 2010, 22:13:08

Originally posted by qzjul:

say I'm a dict with 130 weaps and 2M jets and my ally is a rep with 120 weaps and 500M jets.... then it's

1.25*1.30*2000000 = 3250000

total offence = 3250000 + 3250000

Shouldn't that be:
total offence = 3250000 + 125000

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 13th 2010, 22:59:44

its 500Million jets. if ally gives 25% then it should be 125M ally's jets not 3M250k but qz is developer so we should trust him.

synoder

Member
1664

Nov 14th 2010, 3:23:33

as qz said, it's only 3.25mil cause the attacker only has 3.25mil and you cannot more than double your forces.

if the attacker has 125mil jets then he would get to use all 125mil of the ally's jets instead of just 3.25mil.

Drinks

Member
1290

Nov 16th 2010, 8:19:19

lol at people reading it wrong.

They said 500m, thats 500 mil, thats 500,000,000 (count the 0s)

not 500k

<Drinks> going to bed
<Drinks> pm me if I get hit
<-- Drinks is now known as DrinksInBed -->
<DrinksInBed> looks like I'm an alcoholic

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 16th 2010, 19:47:42

easy to misread since outside ffa its impossible to get 500 million jets.

iZarcon

Administrator
Game Development
2150

Nov 18th 2010, 9:11:48

Originally posted by qzjul:

it's 25% of their forces, to a maximum of double your offence power =/

that's as simple as it gets.

and yes, it is that simple. in practice, you have to understand the difference between 'forces' and 'power'.

Qz says that it's 25% of allied forces, not power. so it's very simple to calc allied help.. exactly 25% of their offensive forces calc'd as jets(so troops*.5, tanks*2)

and then he says tha the 25% can't more than double the attacker's offensive power. power is a whole new ball game.

say the attacker has 100k jets only, but 150% weapons(non-dict/rep). that makes the attacker's power 150k jets. so, if your allies have over 600k jets combined, they will send out 150k jets with your 100k(at 150% weaps tech) to make your total offensive power 300k.

-iZarcon
EE Developer

http://www.letskillstuff.org

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Nov 19th 2010, 19:30:26

=D horray for zarcon explaining better for me :)

Finally did the signature thing.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 19th 2010, 21:22:05

*smacks izarc*

iZarcon

Administrator
Game Development
2150

Nov 20th 2010, 8:54:14

smack me again!

-iZarcon
EE Developer

http://www.letskillstuff.org

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 20th 2010, 21:08:17

*beats izarc with Gallery's wet & used boots*

iZarcon

Administrator
Game Development
2150

Nov 21st 2010, 14:31:27

mmm, boots! r they meant to hurt that bad...?

-iZarcon
EE Developer

http://www.letskillstuff.org

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 21st 2010, 20:31:37

ask from Gally.

bungy

Member
25

Aug 15th 2011, 4:16:57

interesting.

shanelee

Member
271

Aug 30th 2011, 16:25:24

Assumed that non-rep or dic with 100% weapon tech.

Offense side 1.5M jets with 1 allies which have 1M jets.

1st. Total attacking strength would be 1.5M + 250K = 1.75M * PS (1.5) = 2.65M

2nd. Total attacking strength would be 1.5M * PS (1.5) = 2.25M + 250K = 2.5M

Can someone tell me the answer is 1st or 2nd.

Thanks.

afaik

Member
502

Sep 27th 2011, 7:20:48

Second one shaney, your own offensive power, inc ps bonus, govt, and weap tech, is calculated before allied support is added.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 2nd 2011, 22:26:12

so is afaik wrong here?

from wiki, just skim the SS calculation. it includes ally help.

Standard Strike Strength WeaponsTech% * GovtBonus * Readiness * (Troops + Jets*2 + Tanks*4) + min(WeaponsTech% * GovtBonus * Readiness * (Troops + Jets*2 + Tanks*4), 0.25 * (AlliesTroops + AlliesJets*2 + AlliesTanks*4)) where min(value1,value2) = lower of the two values

then see, PS 1.5x bonus comes AFTER the SS calc

Planned Strike Strength SS Strength * 1.5

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Dec 2nd 2011, 23:42:03

its what qz said.

jabberwocky

Member
330

Dec 3rd 2011, 3:12:22

Ya afaik is wrong, i've built a battle calc based on PS bonus AFTER adding ally strength, and my attacks were successful. For most attacks that bonus is non-trivial.

afaik

Member
502

Dec 4th 2011, 22:31:24

I understood that the 150% ps bonus affected the maximum allied support available, but did not affect the power of the allied support received. I could be wrong but I'm sure I recall discussing it with slagpit ages ago and this was the conclusion.

afaik

Member
502

Dec 4th 2011, 22:32:09

p.s. that's why my username is "afaik"

jabberwocky

Member
330

Dec 5th 2011, 0:59:31

Well the info on the wiki certainly implies that the PS modifier applies afterward, but i've had a few attacks fail that shouldn't have, didn't check this as a possibility, so you might be right.

Standard Strike Strength = WeaponsTech% * GovtBonus * Readiness * (Troops + Jets*2 + Tanks*4) + min(WeaponsTech% * GovtBonus * Readiness * (Troops + Jets*2 + Tanks*4), 0.25 * (AlliesTroops + AlliesJets*2 + AlliesTanks*4)) where min(value1,value2) = lower of the two values

Planned Strike Strength = SS Strength * 1.5