I don't believe in pot being the "gateway drug". While out of all my friends who have used or use hard drugs, most started with pot, but even if pot were non existent, they still would have moved on to hard drugs anyways. Some humans just want to get high.

Have you ever heard of someone crashing a car because of pot?

Have you ever heard of someone getting a serious illness because of pot?

Sure pot may lead to lung cancer like tobacco, but pot sure doesn't have the crazy chemicals that are included in the cigarettes.

Remember folks, pot is a plant, and unless you get it from some whacked out dealer, it will be natural.

Forgotten: be careful how you argue:
Have you ever heard of someone crashing a car because of pot?
yes


Have you ever heard of someone getting a serious illness because of pot?
yes

"Remember folks, pot is a plant, and unless you get it from some whacked out dealer, it will be natural. "
That's true. But as far as natural things go: so is black mould, poison 'shrooms, and anthrax.:P

~~~
TGD's argument is much more compelling.

ok martian

what's the ratio of accidents caused by alcohol VS pot?

what's the ratio of serious illness caused by alcohol VS pot?

LIES!

i'm drunk, that's why my arguments suck

"what's the ratio of accidents caused by alcohol VS pot?

what's the ratio of serious illness caused by alcohol VS pot?"

Irrelevant

"Let companies grow them, and add a nice tax to support rehab clinics. and fund Obama's healthcare intiative."

Ya'll way over estimate how much legal pot would raise. It would help states, yes, but for the national government it would be very, very little. Not anything close to funding Obama's health care, nor making a dent in the cost.

if America stopped building nukes and stuff, they wouldn't be in debt so much either!

It's just so hiliarous how american citizens think that Healthcare is a bad thing.


keep being white supremists! who cares that people in your country is dying because hospitals throw them out because they have no money.

Klown, how are those things irrelevant? If it doesn't cause accidents or illness, then what's so terrible about it? Or are you one of those people that assume if the government says something is bad and evil, you blindly believe it?

It is irrelevant to compare it to alcohol. Ive been young before. I KNOW pot is bad. Forgotten: America doesn't build nukes.

How is it bad, then? You can't just proclaim something to be bad without any evidence showing it is.

And I dare anyone here to smoke a bong full of at least 40x salvia!

For those of you wondering what it's like, here's one example: http://www.youtube.com/...tziEg&feature=related

i smoke a lot of fluffing pot, and i can say with out any hesitation that is definitely not good. does that make it bad? i don't know, and don't really care. i'd start with cigarettes if i did. and then the liquor, and then the nyquil when i am sick.

pot would still be my largest vice. i require it to sleep, to eat, a lot to get me through the day at work.

it is not addictive, i just really enjoy it. as i do low acid no pulp tropicana orange juice. just onc i smoke, the other i drink. and one is fully legal. or smartfood. or chocolate. things i enjoy and things i might go overboard on... still, i don't see how that is any business of the federal government, or of yours.

see?

require is a hard word... pot makes me sleepy and hunugry. i'd say it more helps than fuels either one, but still, maybe not the best thing :P

I don't necessarily think pot itself is bad...but people who think their mental capacities aren't impaired, or at least try to claim so, are either turning their heads to cold hard facts, or just living in a fantasy world....and even worse, skewing an otherwise valid argument with their own personal opinions.

I'm all for RESPONSIBLE use. If you wanna sit in your own house or a buddy's house and get ripped, go for it. If the gov't wants to legalize pot, and you wanna go sit in a coffee shop and get baked, knock yourself out. So long as you're not endangering public welfare w/ your private habits, Idgaf what you do to be blatantly honest.

But that also means you don't rip a bongload of nuggets then hop in your car and try to drive because your reaction times are impaired by up to %200 (in multiple independent documented studies). Pot also impairs your spatial awareness, concentration, and depth perception...all of which hinders your ability to operate a motor vehicle safely. AoS, if you can honestly operate a vehicle as well when you're stoned (which quite frankly, I highly doubt), then more power to you....just understand that just about ALL current research points to you being in an extremely small minority of people.

Obviously there are hurdles to either side - but personally I don't see those hurdles as reasons not to do something one way or the other....I think it's become fairly obvious to most folks that the system we're currently using just isn't working anymore.

from super high me

Sober High
SAT 980/1600 1030/1600
Psychic ability 1/25 7/25
Sperm count 21 million/mL 93 million/mL
Lung capacity 92% 89%
Weight -2 lbs. +8 lbs.
Mini mental stats 27/29; 2/3 words 24/29; 6/3 words

I'd say I probably could operate a car just as well. Unless, like I said, I was really, really stoned, in which case I wouldn't want to drive, anyway. And while I could see some people being 200 percent worse at driving or concentrating while stoned, I would put them in the extreme minority (1 to maybe 3 percent of people).

I'd agree that it should be like alcohol in that you should be able to do it at home, privately, or somewhere that allows it, but if they were to give DUI or anything like that for driving stoned, it might as well just be illegal. Most people would probably have to smoke a few bowls of weed to equal the effects of a few beers before driving, and that'd more likely than not would only be if they smoked rarely.

depends on the weed. Some stuff really hits you physically, and usually would make driving iffy.

The Sativa stuff you can drive on no problem though.

True, H4x0r.

i would say 2.5 to 3 bowls equals what a beer would do to my reaction times i smoke a lot :)

now if it was a cookie or something like that i would not move as i get a fat body high from edibles

what happens for one person isn't going to happen for another, so i do this and i do that is meaningless.

pot should remain illegal for obvious reasons. it is bad. how can you sit there smoking however much you do and not realize how it's negatively effecting you? it is fun,

have you ever sat down, got stoned and listened to a bay street rollers album? no child should make the same mistakes i did

It calms my inner demons.
That is the ONLY reason why I liked smoking it.

"i require it to sleep, to eat, a lot to get me through the day at work."

"it is not addictive"

lol.

I love when potheads say its not addictive. I've seen many people addicted to it and had their lives go down the fluffter as a result.

why should alcohol and tobacco remain legal then?

Klown,

I got a friend who was Infantry in the US Military,
he developed Spinal issues and military doctors botched up the metal rod they inserted along his spine.

he's in constant pain.
The strongest anti pain drugs don't take away all the pain.

Pot does.


I had another friend with cancer. Couldn't keep food down during Chemo.
But could after smoking some Pot.


So when someone says they require it, to function IE eat....
I wonder if there's a medical reason for taht before I assume addictive issues....

Smoke a joint if you have a hangover. You will fell wayyyy better.

Anything can be addictive, if you let it. Pot isn't naturally. It makes things more interesting, so yes, it may be nice to do a lot, but the only people that NEED it to do anything are the type of people who are easily addicted. I've smoked for years, and I've quit for long stretches of time, without thinking about it. I also smoke cigarettes, and without one for a few days, I'd be one irritable bastard. I could probably not smoke pot for the rest of my life, and never be irritated about it. I'd be bored, sure, but I wouldn't need it.

Here's some light reading for you AoS - I've tried to find relatively unbiased resources to avoid getting skewed information for political reasons...

Study of perception of dangerousness and risks of driving while under the influence of marijuana:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17874895


I think this is a pretty fair article demonstrating that marijuana DOES affect one's ability to drive, but not to the extent of alcohol. But just like alcohol, if you're really high you're not going to be able to drive well:

http://www.nuffy.net/...-driving-performance.html


I think the error in Klown's point though, is that just as drunk driving is enforced as much as possible, if marijuana is legalized driving while intoxicated will also likely be reconsidered and reformed to match the new laws so that prosecution is possible. No, they won't catch every intoxicated driver, but I doubt the effects would be drastically increased over the current scenario after legalization given the prevalence of pot in the US. I also don't think this invalidates legalizing marijuana in the first place, as it's worked just fine with alcohol for quite a while now. It's a valid concern, but I think there are much larger obstacles to effectively legalizing marijuana.

while i thought i would enjoy this topic...

the stoner in me says that you guys need to limit your posts to 2-3 lines...

cause thats the only posts i read anyway :P

thanks youz

don't go on AT when stoned!

i like how he quotes me and then ignores the part where i discuss the use of the word requires...

oh no, i don't have any pot, i will never eat again, looks like i will die. oh no, i have no pot, i will never sleep again, looks like iw ill die.

fool.

and I'm with klown on this... it should NOT be legal. So klown agrees with a burned out pot addicted citizen of a socialist country. During mccarthyism that was more than enough

"I love when potheads say its not addictive. I've seen many people addicted to it and had their lives go down the fluffter as a result."

I have known people who do that with cheetos and hero sandwiches. What is your point? Other than pot is the devil and we're all little imps for enjoying it?

enjoys... addictive, devil worship!

have you ever smoked it, klown? who did you hit with your car? local politicians wife? your high school sweetheart?

AoS, yes I know the difference in physical and mental addiction. Pot is addictive in the same way gambling, computer games, sex, etc. are addictive. The fact that you'd be 'bored' without pot is one of pots worst qualities - you replace productivity or enjoyable hobbies with pot, and then over time you have nothing but pot. It tends to take over ones life. I've seen this first hand in multiple cases.

It tends not to take over ones life. I've seen this first hand in multiple cases.
Sports gambling is fun, i like to do it right before i eat. Works up a nice appetite.

Pot is definitely physiologically and psychologically addictive. However, I don't see why that (in and of itself) mandates that it ought to be illegal.

From my understanding of the studies, Marijuana can seriously alter your brain chemistry. This, in turn, has measurable consequences to the brain's physical structure and the manner in which it functions. This is particularly true in those who begin smoking it at a young age.

In my opinion, Marijuana is harmful. This seems to be supported by enough scientific study that only a fool, or a person with a very specific agenda, would dispute it. It's arguable, however, whether it's more harmful than cigarettes or alcohol both of which our society views as acceptable.

Based on my brief readings of various studies on this subject, it seems likely that whether or not Marijuana is actually more dangerous is dependant on circumstance.

If not smoked until the brain is fully formed, Marijuana seems to have an effect equal to or less than that of alcohol. It's possible to develop an addiction with serious mental consequences, but this does not occur in the majority of cases. In the long run, it is also far less likely to kill you than nicotine.

If consumed by adolescents however, Marijuana seems to have a permanent effect on brain chemistry and development which is greater than that of alcohol. Also, if only used for a few years, the long-term effects of Marijuana seem to be far greater than those of cigarettes.

Given these facts, it seems as if our primary responsibility with Marijuana has to be to keep it away from adolescents. Whether this can be best done through an outright ban or through legalization and regulation is a point of contention.

Clearly, adolescents use Marijuana now despite the fact that it is illegal. However, regulation of alcohol and cigarettes does not seem to prevent adolescents from acquiring and using these substances either.

This is truly the crux of the issue. Which of these two courses will best prevent adolescents from using Marijuana.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

"It tends not to take over ones life. I've seen this first hand in multiple cases. "

Seriously? A non-occurrence case does NOT provide evidence against something. I've seen people drive drunk and not crash, does that mean its not bad to drive drunk?? Obviously some people can do things in moderation, and bad consequences aren't going to occur in 100% of cases. The fact is it DOES happen and it does happen frequently.

Fooglmog I agree about keeping it out of the hands of adolescents, and right now we are doing a bad job of it. When I was in high school it was easier to get a hold of pot than booze. Maybe legalizing and restricting will make it harder to get a hold of. Its like I've said, this should be a state by state issue and a lot of this stuff could be studied if a state legalized. I oppose in my state, at least until we figure out the consequences of legalizing which we just don't know yet.

The one big thing is, for anyone that thinks pot shouldn't be legal, or at least decriminalized, should also be advocating for prohibition of alcohol. One alters your brain chemistry - the other kills your brain cells. Which isn't a news flash or anything, but obviously I'd rather have brain cells to be altered, than none at all.

Foog- Good point, but good luck. We can't keep much out of the hands of youngsters nowadays, probably won't be able to in the future. And Klown, just because you've seen it happen doesn't mean it happens to everyone, I don't replace productivity or enjoyable hobbies with pot, I just never really had a drive for them anyway.

Either way, pot isn't destructive, the places where it is decriminalized or legal tend to have a lower rate of people that smoke it, and the fact that one of the most powerful hallucinogens is legal to buy, but pot isn't, show's how fluffed up this countries priorities are.

I drive high sometimes. Like AoS said, unless you're very high, I don't think weed really impairs your ability to drive. It's not even in the same league as alchohol when it comes to inhibiting your awareness and reaction times.

Also, I think weed is unfairly labelled a gateway drug. Most people who use harder drugs have do start off smoking weed, but that's just because it's the most harmless and readily available illicit drug. I'd have definitely tried the drug's I've tried whether I'd smoked before or not.

Oh, and yes I agree it can be addictive, and harmful if not used responsibly and in moderation, but that's the same with any drug really.

"Also, if only used for a few years, the long-term effects of Marijuana seem to be far greater than those of cigarettes."

Can you elaborate a little on that statement? What kind of usage are you talking about, chronic users? People who smoke once every couple of weeks? And exactly which long term effects, cigarettes and weed have quite different effects on the body.

eriously? A non-occurrence case does NOT provide evidence against something"

but it provides evidence for something?
i don't know, both sound the same to me.

and, again, i agree with you, it is bad and should remain illegal. except i use it, which does not dilute the fact it's bad.

it will not drive me to kill anybody, it will not drive me insane- will it drive anybody to do either of those things? i don't know, did jodie foster really drive hinkcley to shoot reagan, or was buddy just a fluffing a lunatic?

"LeftyHa8er
Member
Posts: 32 Apr 8th 2010, 1:04:04
i would say 2.5 to 3 bowls equals what a beer would do to my reaction times i smoke a lot :)"


You need to come to Vegas and check the weed out here then my friend. 2.5-3 hits and your on your ass =)

That's because you're in the middle of the godamn desert, DM :P It's heat stroke!

forgotten: more accidents are caused by alchohol than pot. But then more people drink alchohol than smoke pot.
You would need to pro-rate it by # of people using both and then compare. Since there is no reliable data on that..

"and I'm with klown on this... it should NOT be legal. So klown agrees with a burned out pot addicted citizen of a socialist country. During mccarthyism that was more than enough"
braden->blacklist!

fyi: Canada is hardly a socialist country. Otherwise it would make the US socialist too (actually more so). But that's an argument for another thread.

purely facetious, martian, just like most of what i've said in this thread :P

i like to get stoned and watch mash... pot is addictive, it ruins things you otherwise would enjoy! Sucks the innocence and your soul right out of your body.

The moment i didn't stop the bay street rollers album, i knew i was hooked, likely for life. it's just too strong a hold on me, on my life.

i am afraid to think of how i'd be coming down. it would be rough. i might be cranky or not in a good mood. I might even swear.

I have friends who are the same braden. I tend to just not smoke when I have things to do though, I don't smoke often these days because I'm busier with uni and flying. But I smoked a LOT for a while, and can relate to the feeling of knowing you should lay off and get other things done, but not doing them because getting high and chilling with friends is just far more appealing.

I don't ever regret smoking weed though, it's sweet. But not as sweet as acid ;)

I'm definitely not a smoker of anything myself, but I figure you can have people addicted to alcohol as easily (if not moreso) as weed...

The only problem with legalizing is that there may be additional people who would try it and get addicted who would not otherwise have...

i just want to bump this to 100 posts....

and now 101 so i can see a paged thread?

qzjul is

a spammer :p

First 100+ post thread EVER in the history of the game of Earth!!!!!

Anything can be addictive. Heck, we're addicted to this game of 1s and 0s.

Sure, there isn't enough studies or history of weed to determine the level of harmfulness of it versus alcohol and tobacco.

I think a major hold back of legalizing weed is that it gives you a high. The user may experience a feeling where they feel they could do anything and everything. Alcohol usually brings along depression, while weed gives you an emotional boost.

A lot more studies will have to be done.