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Requiem Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 19:56:06

I cannot control what people are offended by; I can only speak the truth. I like how you try always to be nice :) I admire that in you.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 19:56:42

Originally posted by Requiem:
I cannot control what people are offended by; I can only speak the truth. I like how you try always to be nice :) I admire that in you.



Thanks lol
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Slagpit Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:01:46

PS only has a number of drawbacks. Chiefly among them is casual players who only play turns once per day can only do up to 5 grabs per day.

I'll be honest and admit that I don't really understand the issue with the current state. We now have 60 NPC countries instead of 50. By my count, there are 18 countries that have been grabbed 15 or fewer times during the whole round. What is the problem that you're trying to solve?

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:03:23

There's no problem, carry on.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Slagpit Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:08:05

I'm very willing to change things on Express. If you'd like for things to be changed, then I need to understand where you're coming from.

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:09:50

For as near as makes no difference: No one camps anything anywhere.

I talk to all the best netters on 1a and none of them camp news regularily because it's completely unworth. I would be extremely surprised if anyone camped news here on a regular basis. I certainly don't. In fact I believe I never camped news on a bot on this server, ever.

If you are looking for reasons why I consistently beat you here it's not even luke warm at the moment.

Camping USED to be really powerful when there was no half-life on DR and it instead all reset at 24 hours from the hit. People would set alarms for when a certain country dropped to a certain low DR for hours in advance. Extremely time consuming. And that was what netting was about at that time. The DR half lives were introduced to remove that playstyle and it did. It no longer exists, we are all better off.

----

When it comes to casual players having 0 chance... that depends on what you mean by casual. At some low level of effort you shouldn't be able to compete, that is just common sense if you spend 5 minutes a day on spending 360 turns you shouldnt have a chance against someone spending an hour or more. At some moderate level of effort, more effort should yeild diminishing returns in terms of results. The game does decently with this for netting such as in express.

Edited By: Gerdler on May 1st 2021, 20:11:58

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:17:54

Put yourself in the shoes of a new player.

Express is the perfect place for new members to learn and it is literally turning into 1a without the tags, a complete tasteless massacre of bots where you're only going to succeed if you know all the mechanics and their exploits, more bots is not the answer, more competitive play is, if you have 10 people SS bots to fluffs as soon as they come out of DR, those 10 people are the only ones that will be playing for top 10, if you limit the hits each country can make by default you add more competitive play, you involve more people, fluff even the markets will improve I bet.

🤷
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:21:52

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Put yourself in the shoes of a new player.

Express is the perfect place for new members to learn and it is literally turning into 1a without the tags, a complete tasteless massacre of bots where you're only going to succeed if you know all the mechanics and their exploits, more bots is not the answer, more competitive play is, if you have 10 people SS bots to fluffs as soon as they come out of DR, those 10 people are the only ones that will be playing for top 10, if you limit the hits each country can make by default you add more competitive play, you involve more people, fluff even the markets will improve I bet.

🤷


Having an x amount of PS and managing it wisely will create IMO more fun atmosphere that will involve more people, isn't that the goal? More people? Right now it's elite 10, everyone else is filler.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:36:48

I was a new player not so long ago. Came into a set too late flopped around finished 3m NW. Next 2 sets learned about the bots and about the need for GDI. My 4th set I won, 5-6th sets I won, 7th set I got 2nd, 8-9th sets I won.

Since then I learned exactly how DR works and how to calculate it, and you know what? It doesnt matter much. All that is needed is knowing that if the bot is closer in NW, with higher land and having been hit less it will yeild more land. I had the benefit of knowing that from my E2025 days.
In 1a we have better tools but they generally dont lead to better result, they generally mostly lead to faster results for those that know how the game works. Certainly for bad players those tools will make them grab much better as well. So they level the playing field to a degree. But with or without them, the same players still win.

My point is you don't seem to understand what it is better players do better when you diminish their wins to simply more effort.

A better explaination for why you don't win is that despite me explaining that camping is NO LONGER A THING FOR YEARS BEFORE EVEN I STARTED PLAYING you make statements such as this:
Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
if you have 10 people SS bots to fluffs as soon as they come out of DR, those 10 people are the only ones that will be playing for top 10,


Because there is no such thing as 'bots coming out of DR'. It doesn't happen that way. The time when DR worked that way was 8-9 years ago.

Gerdler Game profile

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5078

May 1st 2021, 20:47:36

Originally posted by qzjul:
3) Implement Half-Life DR using 72 hour news
    a) Half life of 18 hours * Relative Hit Strength, minimum of 12 hours, maximum of 24 hours (see d for EXPRESS)
        i) ex1. If you hit with an attacking force of 110% of a targets defence, the half-life is 19.8 hours
        ii) ex2. If you fail with 90% the halflife is 16.2
    b) Continuous DR formula: DR_MULTIPLIER = DR_HITS<13 ? MIN( 1, 0.1+((DR_HITS-13)^2)/135) : 0.1
        i) This is a simple smoothed approximation of the existing DR schedule
    c) Hits older than 72 hours are IGNORED
        i) With the exception of ALL-SET COUNTRY:COUNTRY DR, which is calculated with a 168 hour halflife (1 week)
    d) EXPRESS HALF LIFE IS DIFFERENT:
        i) 8 hour half-life (base) for Express (min 6, max 12); 72 hour ALL-SET COUNTRY:COUNTRY DR halflife


So, currently this would be 9 DR, but now it is 11.48.

Alternately, if you are in war, and survived a KR with 100 hits 72 hours ago where attackers were sending more than 133% of the break, with no hits since, you would be at 12.5 DR still, assuming you'd made no hits. Your attacking would reduce those, again based on time.

--------------------------------



Reasoning:

The DR changes are something we have discussed off and on for quite some time; it will remove DR camping, will allow targets in war to be less brutalized by farming after an unsuccessful killrun, and will, we hope, make things slightly more interesting.



As always, please post your thoughts or concerns below.


Regards,

qzjul & the EE Development Team



In particular notice this segment here:
Originally posted by qzjul:
Reasoning:

The DR changes are something we have discussed off and on for quite some time; it will remove DR camping

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:48:30

Have fun circle jerking the server 👍
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:54:59

This was posted Feb 2nd 2014 and is still in effect exactly as implemented.

It did remove camping, I dare say 99.9% of it.

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Have fun circle jerking the server 👍

What is your point? You have spent your last half dozen posts complaining about a practice that was rendered useless early 2014.

What do you want from the game? Your wish seems to have been fullfilled 7 years ago.

SuperFly Game profile

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5213

May 1st 2021, 20:56:20

You are off topic. Talk to me about set 596 Gerdler.

Who can I PS? Share your targets with me :)

Slagpit Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 20:58:45

I would think that a guy who calls himself "SuperFly" could PS whoever he wants?

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:00:04

my targets are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119.

If you hit either of them you are gonna be deleted.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:02:04

Originally posted by Gerdler:
This was posted Feb 2nd 2014 and is still in effect exactly as implemented.

It did remove camping, I dare say 99.9% of it.

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Have fun circle jerking the server 👍

What is your point? You have spent your last half dozen posts complaining about a practice that was rendered useless early 2014.

What do you want from the game? Your wish seems to have been fullfilled 7 years ago.


Looks like I offended you somehow, sorry for offering ideas to make the server more inclusive.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:06:45

You understand DR as it was before february 2014, not as it works now. Can you understand how that might disadvantage you in your quest to win the game?

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:10:17

,,!,, (-_-) ,,!,,
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:12:42

I don't care about winning, bro, I care about inclusion rather than circle jerks, that's what makes a game fun.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:14:08

I agree, that is why I try to explain to you how DR works NOW, with links to the original announcements back in 2014.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:17:37

Originally posted by Gerdler:
I agree, that is why I try to explain to you how DR works NOW, with links to the original announcements back in 2014.


I know how it works and I thanked you for it, again, that doesn't address the situation of the matter, ===> server is a circle jerk <=== it's is NOT fun for people outside, we the filler, limiting hits on bots would create more opportunity, you know.....include more players.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Molotov Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:49:58

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Bots are being SS to fluffs like clockwork and your argument is "nobody camps anymore" all while you at the same time just admitted to the benefits of camping...

For real, nobody camps. You can't camp, because DR fades off gradually and there's not a magic moment when NOW is the time to attack.

What I do when I'm ready to attack is check the news on a few bots until I find one where the DR is low. Especially this round it was always easy to find some.

I do believe that the game interface should be upgraded so you can look at the entire country list and click on any of them to see their news, a la eestats. I don't know why such a crucial tool is hosted externally.

SuperFly Game profile

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5213

May 1st 2021, 21:52:06

Originally posted by Slagpit:
I would think that a guy who calls himself "SuperFly" could PS whoever he wants?


Good idea. Let me get cash rich and I’ll nail a few players cuz these bots are played out lol

Molotov Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:52:57

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
if you have 10 people SS bots to fluffs as soon as they come out of DR, those 10 people are the only ones that will be playing for top 10,

Those players are actually playing really inefficiently. They are spending more turns on lower land yields than someone who picks and chooses their grabs with prudence. That's how someone like that MHowar guy plays but it doesn't win.

Gerdler Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 21:57:53

For me, if you restict us to only PS, it would force me to play more spread out over the reset and be a slave to the PS timer to be able to compete. Because I can rack up 20 SS in a row at times I can spend down 100+ turns in a login and as such dont need to log in as often during an insanely long grabbing phase.

I still dont understand your circle jerk comment, because I am trying my best answering questions on the Q&A board or whereever it comes up that someone needs help understanding the game.

I think for most people learning how the game works takes both a willingness to learn and good resources. We don't have good resources for it and most people dont have a willingness to learn either. That is why only a few people can compete and that is applicable for all servers, isnt it? Either way I try to attack the root cause of that by teaching people the fundamentals of the game, however hard they try to avoid it.

Slagpit Game profile

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May 1st 2021, 22:21:53

My experience as a player in Express is that doing well requires good fundamentals and adapting to the high turn rate. It's still possible for an all-X country to finish in the top ten.

Molotov's comment about efficiency is interesting to me. By some measures, this country grabbed very inefficiently: https://www.earthempires.com/express/595/ranks/18. Yet it still finished with 44 M NW because it had good fundamentals, despite the low time investment and the inefficient grabbing.

Edited By: Slagpit on May 1st 2021, 22:24:37
See Original Post

Primeval Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 0:41:58

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Originally posted by Gerdler:
Whats camping? We don't camp anymore... its not worth it. I already explained you why; the reset only removes ~12.5% of the original DR. That is the only part you can camp, the other 87.5% of the original DR drops off smoothly over 24 hours. You can't camp that part.

You could also camp I guess when the bots explore, which would be decently fruitful for a few hours in the early game when the bots can double in land over a login, but certainly not for the rest of the reset when we are talking about bots exploring from 10500-11200 acres in a login; that is not worth camping for...



Bots are being SS to fluffs like clockwork and your argument is "nobody camps anymore" all while you at the same time just admitted to the benefits of camping...

/head explodes


This server is turning into 1a without the tags, casual players have 0 chance of competing with people that camp to exploit flaws, that's my point.


I dont think Express is designed for the "casual" player. In fact, it's more designed to cater to players that you're saying are "camping". I feel like you're complaining about something that was likely purposeful at inception.

Requiem Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 0:50:18

Quit thinking it hurts your head.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 1:59:01

Some many feelings get hurt when you pee pee on someone's sand box...


Fine, leave it as is and while at it continue to wonder why the community continues to shrink in your quest to "improve" the game.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Slagpit Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 5:28:39

Was the game better in round 591 than it is today? I think 592 was the first one with changes.

SuperFly Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 7:14:34

2009 was the best year for express. No bots, no BS, just good small countries competing for the win.

BaDonkaDonks Game profile

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408

May 2nd 2021, 9:27:11

Agree SF, better without bots - let’s try to attract more real players.

Gerdler Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 11:35:23

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
Some many feelings get hurt when you pee pee on someone's sand box...


Fine, leave it as is and while at it continue to wonder why the community continues to shrink in your quest to "improve" the game.

So we should remove SS because you say it will improve the game and remove camping. Even tho camping doesn't exist and no one agrees with you that SS should be removed?

Gerdler Game profile

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5078

May 2nd 2021, 12:25:27

I'm not playing express at the moment, but last set I got 50k acres with a CI, and this set 10 bots were added and another CI has 50k acres. Grabbing doesn't seem all that difficult, nor getting more difficult with the changes that have been made.

I won my 4th set in express and I had not played EE before(only e2025). I imagine that I would have won faster if I started playing now because the 2nd and 3rd sets I didnt know about bots nor GDI, which are advantages old experienced players no longer have. Slagpit made it so that GDI is automatic, and so that the bots are identified by the game.

These are changes that unequivocally puts new players in a better position to compete than before and they were just done, yet you are still complaining about the direction being wrong.
Is it better if new players cant tell which is the bot so they hit a player hiding as a bot twice and get killed for it every set? That never happened to me or any other experienced player, as you know.

What changes have been in the wrong direction so far KoH?

Tmac Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 12:30:41

This thread is cuckoo!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 18:36:57

Originally posted by Gerdler:
I'm not playing express at the moment, but last set I got 50k acres with a CI, and this set 10 bots were added and another CI has 50k acres. Grabbing doesn't seem all that difficult, nor getting more difficult with the changes that have been made.

I won my 4th set in express and I had not played EE before(only e2025). I imagine that I would have won faster if I started playing now because the 2nd and 3rd sets I didnt know about bots nor GDI, which are advantages old experienced players no longer have. Slagpit made it so that GDI is automatic, and so that the bots are identified by the game.

These are changes that unequivocally puts new players in a better position to compete than before and they were just done, yet you are still complaining about the direction being wrong.
Is it better if new players cant tell which is the bot so they hit a player hiding as a bot twice and get killed for it every set? That never happened to me or any other experienced player, as you know.

What changes have been in the wrong direction so far KoH?


Just one.....

Bots
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Molotov Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 18:43:47

There were 46 human players that made it out of protection last round. There used to be 150+. I don't love the idea of bots on their own but they're basically a life support system for dwindling player base.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 18:56:11

If there wasn't bots all those people in Primary would play here, how many people played before bots on the last set before they got introduced? My observation is that since bots got introduced more people left.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Slagpit Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 18:56:21

Once we have a seasonal model for Express then we'll have the option to turn off NPC countries for a season. Could even do something as democratic as letting players vote on it. I don't think that most players will like it though.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 18:58:37

Originally posted by Slagpit:
Once we have a seasonal model for Express then we'll have the option to turn off NPC countries for a season. Could even do something as democratic as letting players vote on it. I don't think that most players will like it though.


There's an idea I'll back, yes throwing randomness will for sure make things more interesting, humans dig novelty, I like that 👍
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 19:49:42

Originally posted by Molotov:
There were 46 human players that made it out of protection last round. There used to be 150+. I don't love the idea of bots on their own but they're basically a life support system for dwindling player base.


Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:
If there wasn't bots all those people in Primary would play here, how many people played before bots on the last set before they got introduced? My observation is that since bots got introduced more people left.


BTW, there's 120 countries in Tourney.... No bots in that server either.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

SuperFly Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 20:03:35

Originally posted by Slagpit:
Once we have a seasonal model for Express then we'll have the option to turn off NPC countries for a season. Could even do something as democratic as letting players vote on it. I don't think that most players will like it though.


That would be great. Would be nice to see people win on skill with no bots rather than who can farm the bots most and spend the most time hunting down low DR SS’s

Slagpit Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 20:29:38

Winning is already mostly based on skill. I don't think that those types of comments are good for the community. They are divisive and put down the accomplishments of others.

Gerdler Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 21:04:48

Also, same player winning express last set as tournament last set. And how many times have Tmac won primary? he is winning express this round probably.

KoHeartsGPA Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 21:16:47

Originally posted by Gerdler:
Also, same player winning express last set as tournament last set. And how many times have Tmac won primary? he is winning express this round probably.


I don't have issue with that.
Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6VRMGTwU4I
-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Molotov Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 21:31:50

Get ready to party like it’s 1999, the bots are coming for the top ten

Edited By: Molotov on May 2nd 2021, 21:35:57

Gerdler Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 21:42:50

the human NWs should have risen a lot with the addition of 10 bots...

Slagpit Game profile

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May 2nd 2021, 21:55:52

"Masters of Yakkityyak" was my favorite NPC name of the round.

NitelL Game profile

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548

May 2nd 2021, 22:02:11

So as someone who returned to Earth fairly recently (compared to some of the other regular top10ers here), this is what it looked like:
1st set all x theo techer to feel out the server and market. Finished #8
2nd set all x demo farmer to feel out farmer. Didn't login at the end. Finish #14
3rd set all x rep casher to feel out casher. Finished #4. (and realized the only strat that can net in Express before the latest set of changes was techer)
and then 4th set onwards was tryharding and finished #1/#2ish for the next like 10 or 20 sets. lol

I've never camped, and in fact, some of these wins were so low effort I barely logged in once a day.
It's generally just about good fundamentals.

Hell, last set, I did a blistering pace on Theo Casher that looked like this:
Fully built
17k turn 680
19k turn 750
20k turn 800
23k turn 900
27k turn 1000
30k turn 1100

Did not camp. Just nw matched bots as far as I can (until i started logging out first place) and hit the lowest DR target, whatever the number is (13 or 15 DR whatever).

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I find Express to be the most casual and accessible for me vs Primary which I find the most unforgiving and requires a lot more effort... which is why I only play Express and Tourney (braindead all x) at present.

NitelL Game profile

Member
548

May 2nd 2021, 22:03:15

...and back to round 596, Tmac's got this I reckon.