My question is this: If you were qzjul, would you rewrite the GDI rules in any way to encourage a certain retal window.

For instance, the GDI rules could be rewritten so that if a country hits you more then one week after your first attack on them, you may hit that country once again without losing GDI protection. This would in essence introduce a mod endorsed one week retal window of sorts.

Personally, this would be the rule I would favor from a game-mod perspective, even though as a player I have and will enforce a retal window that is less then 1 week.

So, would you guys tweak the GDI rules if you could?

If that's how it worked, then I could double tap or ROR people after a week had passed, right? Unintended consequence?

I found it difficult to express the GDI rule I intended, but I don't think this could happen. But perhaps I didn't think of something, could you explain more what you mean blid?

In the rule I'd propose, you can only attack a person for a second time and keep GDI protection from them if
1) They attack you more then a week after your initial grab.
2) You then attack them less then a week after their attack.

Altho perhaps I'm not sure what the GDI protections should be in the following hypothetical:
Country A attacks B
1 day later: B retals A
2 weeks after first attack: B attacks A
1 day after this latest attack: A retals B

In this case I guess by the rule I stated B would have lost GDI protection, but A had not. Which, IMO, seems fair. But I could see it argued that the GDI rule should be modified further still so that both still have GDI protection after the above scenario.

I propose that Bobby no longer has a "retal window" that he can claim to enforce.

Sorry, Bobby your own making, bro :-(

I'd much rather see Bobby continually waste 2 months of his life throwing away top 10 finishes than having the admins further endorse this fictitiously invented policy of a "retal".

crest, the admins already endorse the policy of a "retal" through GDI 2x tap rules.

You mean this is the rule you would favor from a netter's prespective. The whole thing with the retal window argument is you think that everyone should be netting and thus you want a retal window to protect you so you only have to outrun the retal for the time of the window to ensure the land you keep is free no?

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with GDI at the moment. It does what it's supposed to, protect you from random suiciders and protects smaller countries from being farmed. Someone hitting you a few weeks or even a month later because you hit them first is perfectly legit. You hit them when you were ready, why can't they hit you back when they're ready?

And like Crest said, retal window is a made up concept by the players, not an official rule of the game.

How about if you can't handle getting retaliated, just go all ex and get farmed or go play another game.

You can't create a retal window in a single player game, the only retal windows that exist and can exist are in teamplay servers because an alliance can enforce a retal window, like all do on the alliance server and many do on the ffa server.

What makes anyone think that they deserve to not be retaliated for a bigger amount when they hit someone who retaliates them?

When a 10k country hits a 30k country at the same net for 4k, does that country deserve 3 retals to get his land back? No, he sucks it up cuz he's a fatass.

Just suck it up and play the game the way its meant to be played, or fight for a losing cause every round.

Now I see why laws/taxes are geared towards benefiting the rich/powerful in this country. Bobby = rich/powerful ppl.. not getting what they want to live a challenge free life so they influence politicians (qz) to implement rules to benefit them. Ridiculous.

Yeah, that's why I said 'further'. Though one can actually slice that GDI rule up in several different ways. Like LATC says, it is meant to prevent against random suiciders. It is meant to give the little guy a way to hammer a big guy that farms him. It does several other things too. I like it the way it is. Let there be at least a few unknowns in the game, it's good for the game.

I still think Bobby playing a CI and Bobby playing a farmer in the same set, Bobby CI will grab Bobby farmer early when food is $30. Why should Bobby farmer be able to retal mid set when food recovers?

FYI, I meant that as 2 players of equal skill in the same set.

good grief all these replies are pathetic.

pathetic because we don't whine and cry about things that don't go our way? Your post is pathetic dude. Read what you wrote, see how whiny and entitled you sound.

Yeah, good point, and that's why I don't think a 3-day policy is fair. In a week though a good farmer could probably jet up enough to make a retal, especially because when food is cheap the top countries usually are pretty low defense. I might kind of like Bobby's idea with a 14-day rule instead of 7-day rule but ehh... probably not really worth it.

I definitely don't think the replies are pathetic. Even if people don't agree with you most of the posts are pretty good.

Funniest discussion I ever see...

Might as well ask for take off all harmful spy operation & war room option.

Only keep spy, spy alliance, SS & PS

No they really aren't. Your posts were fine of course. The others were full of anger directed at me for asking about what people would think about changes to GDI (a discussion I brought up b/c such changes have been discussed elswhere before and I wanted to centralize discussion). Stating an opposite opinion is fine, but they were all attacking me personally for having an opinion they didn't agree with.

And now to top it all off, you are acting like I'm the one who can't deal with people having an opposing opinion lol.

Yes he does, he worked hard for that land. The retal should be land:land because he doesn't deserve to lose out on acres to some skinny lazyass of equal net who couldn't be bothered to go out grabbing hard everyday.

But its not. If someone can reach the same NW as someone else with 1/3rd the land, good for them. They will be tech heavy and can top feed like crazy.

I probably get topfeed as much as anyone else in solo servers because Im always fat. I take my retal, break even or lose and move on.

GDI is a joke to begin with, you can run a 0 tank country all set and 0% sdi if you don't double tap anyone and be fine. I agree with Viva, I can't believe people want more protection than GDI alone.

Sorry bobby, in my opinion that idea is terrible.

I'd rather see gdi back the way it used to be than go that way. A player needs the freedom to play the type of game they want, not follow someone else's style of play. You still look at retals in the alliance server player created way. There is no such thing as a Retal. In gdi you are allowed to attack each country once without worry if special attacks. If you decide to attack twice or more, you leave yourself vulnerable.

You attack him now, he attacks you a week later. It's not a Retal, its an attack. If you choose to attack him a 2nd time... That's yo @ss.

Bobby i got another recruit for you...

2013-02-15 13:09:12 PS Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) Whos yo Daddy (#265) 546A (1214A)
2013-02-21 14:00:59 PS Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 3098A (5562A)
2013-02-22 04:05:32 PS Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) Whos yo Daddy (#265) 1112A (2133A)

Message from Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) sent on Feb 22, 4:06
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I will treat your attack as LG as it has already pass 72 hours. This is a retal for your LG.


2013-02-22 14:37:47 EM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 212620MU
2013-02-22 14:37:46 EM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 214078MU
2013-02-22 14:37:45 EM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 215550MU
2013-02-22 14:37:41 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 2379A
2013-02-22 14:37:40 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 2504A
2013-02-22 14:37:40 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 2636A
2013-02-22 14:37:39 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 2775A
2013-02-22 14:37:39 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 2921A
2013-02-22 14:37:38 NM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 3008A
2013-02-22 14:37:32 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1639B 61041 C
2013-02-22 14:37:31 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1640B 61041 C
2013-02-22 14:37:30 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1640B 61042 C
2013-02-22 14:37:29 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1640B 61044 C
2013-02-22 14:37:28 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1640B 61049 C
2013-02-22 14:37:27 CM Whos yo Daddy (#265) Puff Da Magic Dragon (#30) 1640B 61059 C

Im not sure if I would have hit back if he didn't send that message...

there goes another possible 100k finish.

A *definite* 100m finish, knowing who plays that

It's easy for them to have equal net on low land (up until people start jumping) because they're not spending money grabbing, building, don't need so much tech. They have cruddy countries without high finish potential but they can keep up easily. I don't think I should *lose* land to them if I'm of equal size in net.

Maybe he should have thought twice about RORing a countrythat already fraught a war this set for being RORed...

People need to learn to study history, you are doomed to repeat your mistakes when you don't. Poof, there goes the magic dragon.

Looking at the eestats, after the missiles there was some serious hemorrhagic activities that happened I suspect black ops.

I may have bombed some airbases...

He's got a point. Just because you don't accept the retal doesn't mean you won't pay for it afterwards because the game rules don't support your idea of "72h retal turning into LG"

^ I agree. Look at all this mayhem taking place over retals, it adds some excitement :)
I got retalled by some small country that went all jetter after I went all jetter myself to do my own retals. Good for him for trying, I didn't accept his retal and I lost quite a bit fighting him but it was fun at least. I don't want to be in some kind bubble where I can't be touched for the entire set.. it's boring.

Yeah the game would only be a battle of calculations on the order of turns.

You suck. Get used to it.

nukevil you would be funnier with a different sig.

Bobby, stop trying to enforce your policies on everyone.

You already lost one war this set because of it...

Why should he have to stop? Especially if he's already been in a war, now he has nothing to lose.

I didn't lose a war. He offered a ceasefire and I took it. Based on how the markets worked out this set it is quite possible Seth would have finished as well as I would have if he netted. I ended that possibility for him. That is enforcement. No I can't enforce a retal window and continue to net. GL to the person who thinks they can lol...

You can in some cases, not vs people who know how to fight though. But yeah, Seth could potentially have a country like #210's right now (the big tyrant) if not for the war. Everyone is laughing at bobby getting beat up, but I think he also probably has a lot of netters thinking next time we get hit, we'll try to hit back in 72 hours to be safe.

Historically in this game one competent player could destroy another. But people wanted to interact with one another without being destroyed so various norms came into play. The two main norms were 1 LG being acceptable and retals within 72 hours. Sure some people violated these norms, but the norms were fairly well established.

Now that the 1LG norm has basically been legislated into the game with GDI, it is funny that the second norm seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs.

From this set alone it would seem that the inevitability of trying to enforce an ROR-ability is to get your teeth kicked in.

Indeed blid:

2013-02-02 12:43:01 Whos yo Daddy $9,245,018 30,262 acres IG (before our war)

2013-02-02 23:58:01 AustAgder $10,361,276 33,901 acres TG

And Seth had the building cost bonus...

I think you played to much Alliance back then. Until this set, I had never heard of a 72 hour rule.

It is a few hours a day (maybe more maybe less for some of us) for two months each set. Spend them how you want to. But if you are going to stick to a 72 hour retal window, you might want to set your country up like a tank instead of pure netter. Because eventually a war is a coming your way probably.

Don't be dishonest crest! We all heard about CROATIA's rule last set!

Ok, I guess it was last set then. Who takes gogy seriously anyways.

Err I'm not going to change anything because of what Bobby did this set. Sure I like to net and see how high I can finish, but I also really like warring and I think the players who are consistently top 15 will care more than me about throwing a reset away to war.



When the heck was 72 hour retal EVER a norm in primary? I played for 4 yrs when it was E2025 and I don't recall this ever being the case. Only people who play alliance think there is such a thing as a retal window at all - I sure as heck didn't know about a retal window until I started play in an alliance.

Like I've said in the past, there's no right or wrong to this, it's just actions based on personal opinions followed by consequences for those actions. Deal with it, at the end of the day the only person you can control is yourself, so stop trying to get the admins to change the game rules to what you want or force other ppl to see things your way. This means yes, go ahead and enforce what you want, but don't complain if it leads to a war every reset.

I let gogy ror me and get away with it cuz his bonus was defense and his country was a tank... Good Spal, 150%, weapons, high sdi and heavy tanks.. I don't fight losing battles and trying to negotiate with gogy is like negotiating with terrorists

Well maybe you don't consider yourself strictly a netter then. But when I get hit these days I make sure to do my best to retal within 72 hours because I didn't want to risk a ROR. Just sayin.

OTOH as I've said before though Bobby should realize farmers take a bit longer to get going or maybe Seth had other retals to make first. 4 guys hit a guy in one day, does that mean he can't retal the 4th because it will take > 72 hours? I think what Bobby enforced on Seth was needlessly strict and kind of unfair. Just like when RVP topfed SV Sounds, and SV Sounds didn't retal for 75 hours, and Bobby said he would have started a war over it - that's nuts! The dude topfed him, maybe SV Sounds wanted to wait for there to be more land before he retaled. RVP was lucky he only got hit back once, he was definitely smaller in net, and Bobby was thinking it was more important that SV Sounds took 3 hours "too long."

Alliance players cannot grasp the concept that there is no entitlement to retaliation. Most people will let yo get away with a hit for hit, but it ain't mandatory. Alliance rules of retals, RORs, L:L, escalating retals, etc don't exist here. You can try your best to implement and enforce it, but good luck. You have nobody but yourself to back you up.

Plus the player imposed rules have made alliance a boring ass server. We don't want primary to be just like alliance.

Message from Fiscal Cliff (#29) sent on Feb 22, 18:10
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I hope you learn a lot from the ass kicking I'm giving you

LOL bobby thinks a war is won in 2 days. He has no idea how war works huh. I'm a tyranny, I can rebuild and generate as many hits/day, if not more, as he can each day. Sure bobby, your spies are bombing my bldgs/jets, but you're doing me a favor.. my negative cashflow is turning positive, and soon as I can drop some of these empty acres my spal will be better than yours then what will you do?

I produce more food than you, I produce more spies than you, I have SDI/warfare tech, I have more tanks. Not to mention I have a lot more military/tech to sell off than you, who do you think will last longer?