What im sayin is...they need more doctors to control the pestilence.

Those kids I had to deal with were "able" to receive the vaccination. Your key word. The parent CHOSE not to based on the INFORMED Dr's recommendation that the risk was far too high.

CHOSE INFORMED that is the key words you should be listening too. Not one must or you are stupid. One is only stupid then choose to blindly just follow what someone else tells them too, especially when far too often not everyone has your best interest at heart.

I actually concur with this whole statement. For once you didnt try to put words in my mouth or twist my words. For once you actually stuck to detailed simple truth instead of trying to be selfish or trying to tell everyone they are stupid if they dont just go do w/e the govt and or Dr recommends that too.

i refuse to participate in your stupidity any further. i turely hope you dont kill anyone stupid enough to take you seriously.

everyone who can be vaccinated should be. someone with a 50% chance of death doesnt fall into the category of being able to be vaccinated. the fact that you think this says more than i ever could about your ignorance.

Yeah, but what about the Dr. Martin Luther Kings of the world...

OK, so at least half a dozen people have posted the same thing in here:

Points:
1) We agree that vaccines are important and most are very beneficial.
2) We feel that individuals should have the choice of whether or not to actually get the vaccines.
3) We feel people should make informed choices.

trife and jayr are trolls and will be ignored, except for this statement.

ford has the idea that he knows best and everyone should follow him blindly, and no one will ever change his mind on that, even though several people have posted various anecdotes and facts to support the idea of "making an informed choice".

debating with ford actually turns into arguing, as he namecalls and refuses to post actual facts to support anything he says. Arguing is a waste time.

My son once told me something that is relevant here..."Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and win with experience."

My position still stands. All three points I listed above are valid. I don't believe I can be any more clear on my position. I plan to be out of this now.

lol jayr way to reduce Dr Martin Luther King. I'm pretty sure there was only one Dr Martin Luther King of the world :p

no, i don't think he's trying to say that he knows best. i think we're all trying to tell you that the experts in the fields that study these medications/uses/side effects have ____NEVER____ _____ONCE_____ shown that vaccines cause austism. i'd love to see some SCIENTIFIC studies that show otherwise. the scientific community would love to see what facts you can bring to back up your claims....



ahhh thats right, all you and the other retards believing the bullshiate you're spewing have is mere anecdotes. no data. no studies. no facts.

again, i'll post one last time for all your opinions/anecdotes:

[CITATION NEEDED]

I'm an idiot and I havnt posted any facts? Lol ok juice where are all these facts you have been posting? I have shared numerous links you apparently have not clicked on. Lol. clearly reading is a challenge for you. Carry on.

People having a choice to vaccinate defeats the entire purpose if vaccinating. There is a fact for you. I believe I used the analogy of requiring employees in food service to wash their hands after using the bathroom. That is mandated. This is because it effects more people than the precious little snowflake that thinks they have rights that outweigh everyone else's in the community. It isn't a personal choice, it is something the entire community needs to participate in in order to protect those who do not have an option. It is as simple as that. You trusting the general population to make an informed decision is cute, however misguided.

Believing you should have a choice is literally the most selfish thing you can do. Have fun being a baby killer. God help the granola flufftard that gets my child sick Because she doesn't have the choice to be vaccinated that you seem to covet so much.

THIS IS AMERICA FORD

IF YOU WANT TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO WASH THEIR HANDS BEFORE PREPARING FOOD THAN THATS SOME fluffING COMMUNIST BULLCRAP.

MY GRAND PAP HIS GRAND PAPS BEFORE HIM DID NOT DIE IN GLORIOUS COMBAT ONLY TO HAVE THEIR GREAT GREAT GRANDSONS RIGHTS BLATENTLY VIOLATED AND STRIPPED FROM HIM.

WHAT NEXT? YOURE PROBABLY GOING TO WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO BAN LEADED GASOLINE? THIS IS AMERICA, FULL OF FREEDOMS. IF GAS COMPANY WANTS TO USE LEAD IN THEIR GAS, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO! IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LEADED GAS THEN YOU SIMPLY DONT HAVE TO BUY IT.

MRFORD YOU ARE AN EMBARASSMENT TO AMERICA, TURN IN YOUR FREEDOM CITIZENSHIP CARD! YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!oneone11

Lol. All I can say is hopefully they never have to have an immunocompromized kid and have to sit there and listen to assholes claim they have a choice to risk their kids life because they feel they are special and have read some bullfluff fear mongering. The rage that swells, the fear that keeps you up at night.

Now, I know my experience clearly isn't as valid as juice having a friend with gluten autism and Hawkster and his friend having a bad reaction and his extensive accounting experience in a hospital, but I try to understand! I am only an idiot after all.

well, you did shoot yourself....

I KID, I KID

lol, some have claimed I virtually did shoot myself by going to a range! Stupidity is an interesting thing to observe. The only thing is, once it starts to effect you the interesting is replaced with apprehensivness.

mrford have you actually read any of Dr Viera Scheibner published reports or books? If not I highly suggest that you do. Granted I have not read everything as it is difficult reading, but what I have read disputes a lot of your utter nonsense. I hope one day you will wake up, stop caring only about one kid (trust me I understand the need to want to care about your kids) and start caring about our race for generations to come.

You have been correct all along, you shouldnt listen to me, you should listen to one of the leading experts regarding vaccinations, as well as their extensive studies on the matter.

One expert. One expert that is disagreed with by dozens. One expert that was born in the 1930s. This is the problem with allowing people to form their own opinion. Information is selective. You have proven this point quite effectively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/...iera_Scheibner#Criticisms



my favorite. research who you are getting your research from dude.

[quote poster=Trife; 35056; 635307]

no, i don't think he's trying to say that he knows best. i think we're all trying to tell you that the experts in the fields that study these medications/uses/side effects have ____NEVER____ _____ONCE_____ shown that vaccines cause austism. i'd love to see some SCIENTIFIC studies that show otherwise. the scientific community would love to see what facts you can bring to back up your claims....



ahhh thats right, all you and the other retards believing the bullshiate you're spewing have is mere anecdotes. no data. no studies. no facts.

again, i'll post one last time for all your opinions/anecdotes:

[CITATION NEEDED]

[/quote]You are absolutely correct in regards to the autism, science has so far proven this. I have already stated as much and I do not expect that too ever change.

However, you are incorrect about the rest of it. There are plenty of data, studies and facts done by various Dr's in regards to diseases and vaccines. If you just only care to open your eyes and not just read the basic propaganda speel that the news loves to air. Have a look at the Lancet perhaps or some other respected expert journals / forums / etc.

Wow. So much hate in this thread.

Food for thought

I already have, but I never only read one side, I always read both sides. Because some of the stuff has been called into question, does not dispute everything. Nor does it especially dispute any of the other quoted research that was done by many, many others in the past. Yes, it may call into question Scheibner analysis of them, but it will NOT change the basic facts of them. A lot of it is still interesting reading nonetheless, and you should be smart enough to draw your own conclusions IF you keep an honest open mind.

roflmao

http://en.wikipedia.org/...iera_Scheibner#Criticisms


"None of Scheibner's claims in relation to vaccination, SIDS or traumatic infant head injuries have been published in peer-reviewed medical, legal or criminological journals of an accepted international standard."

lol

Ok how about read some of Tove Ronne research, usually published in the The Lancet. I have not been able to find much disputing their work. I would guess mostly because they normally do not write conclusions or analysis from their work, they simply let the work speak for itself.

Hawkster and juice need to round up all their people that agree with them, go to some island away from the vaccinated countries and hopefully not dai of some preventable disease.


Listen, you don't want vaccination, fine!, don't walk amongst us nor send your children to same school we have ours.

That is all.

are you fluffing kidding me?





are. you. fluffing. kidding. me. this is the person you think people should draw their own conclusions from despite her being disproved by dozens of actual scientists? ok, you no longer get to talk here. stick to accounting.

The Lancet is a scientific journal that has taken political stances. a cardinal sin. do i really need to destroy them like i did your last expert witness? how about their paper that links autism with vaccines? a point you even admit is incorrect.

Editorial boards for peer-reviewed journals get funded, sometimes, by entities w a vested interest in certain outcomes or results. This silences dissenting views; it doesnt always mean the 'science' is any better or worse tan what does get published.

The Lancet is a major medical journal that most experts follow, and yes like most published media it is undoubtedly biased. (one can make such claims about most like CNN, FOX, New York Times, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc) It is still a source of info or a tool.


Nope not kidding, that is based on numerous other people's work (Ronne just one of). Interestingly some of this widely accepted, in particular about the Measles. It was like only 5 - 10 years ago that most news reported ground breaking research that Measles could cure cancer. So no definitely NOT kidding you on this, and doubt you will find many experts to think so either.

Sorry I am not familiar with that quote, as I already knew about Scheibner being ridiculed in particular about their SIDS research, to be honest I do not pay much attention to it, nor about SIDS in general. I know next to nothing on that topic.

Oh and I also believe, if memory serves correctly, that The Lancet retracted that.

You just referred to a geologist as an expert in vaccinations.

dont worry, hawkster knows what he is talking about! he reads both sides!

someone being ridiculed on SIDS doesnt effect the rest of their research!

at least not when it agrees with your preconceived notions!

hahahahahaha

i'm laughing so hard at hawkster and juice

thanks for the morning giggles!

Yes a geologist who also did one year of Natural Sciences and also has studied and read thousands of medical papers. You do realize many experts on various topics do not have relevant graduate work, just as many people work in jobs with completely different graduate degrees. That is not always what makes one an expert.

what about all the people who have been in the field of immunization their entire careers, have the credentials and experience to back it up, and share opinions with people like me who think immunization is a good thing?

it's like the global warming debate... 99% of scientists say 1 thing, 1% says the opposite.... you only care about the 1% who agree with you and discount the 99% who don't as "sheep".

lol

i can't take you seriously anymoars

Natural Sciences as in...geology. She did one year in medicine, but received no medical qualifications.


Also, she received an RNDr (not a PhD or anything). in "Doctor of the things of nature", in Bratislava, which makes it equal to an extension of a master-like degree.
She's not a Dr.

she was an RD jr!??! i knew it!

OK, I'm down to your level now. YOU'RE ALL fluffING IDIOTS.

Neither Hawkster, nor myself, ever suggested or said that people should not get vaccinated. NEVER ONCE.

I really don't want to stay involved in this conversation because it's dumb, but the crux of the argument is that folks like yourself think that vaccination should be something that you consider for your family the same way as a flu shot or whether or not you take cough medicine. The competing viewpoint is that it's not a personal choice issue, it's a public health/herd immunity issue that needs near complete buy-in to work and that's how we got to the point we are at now.

Also, you've called people who do support vaccines "sheep" and other derogatory terms enough that you are in a defacto state of trying to get people into the "ya, vaccines are something we shouldn't trust" camp. And THAT is what everyone is taking offense to.

As H4 said, people don't know what it was like to live with these diseases.

People don't understand that we have the freedom of choices, not freedom to do whatever you want.

You are free not to get vaccinated, but you are choosing not to be part of public school or any number of things. Getting everything you want without consequence is anarchy.

They don't get it, Req :-(

http://i.imgur.com/c2NbswQ.png

I'd like to see what Juice/Hawkster have to say about this damning evidence!

We are a bunch of sheep...naturally!


Don't get me started with "organic", I've been in the agricultural industry for 17 years now hehe you would get sick to your stomach..

yeah, i'm aware that the organic label is a crock of bullmalarky

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It proves that you can take any piece of data and skew it to show what you want. Which means that your scientific proof isn't always going to show the real truth.

Also, as with anything else in nature, we adapt to survive. As people get different diseases, some die, and some are naturally immune (or have enough immunity to get ill, but survive). By default, as the disease spreads throughout the world, humans as a whole get stronger and develop a natural immunity to the disease, as the rest die off and don't reproduce their inferior genes.

So, I want to change my position now. I want everyone to refuse vaccines, so then, only the strong will survive.

btw, at this point, I'm done debating/arguing, as I stated above. I'm just tolling and posting whatever dumb crap I can. I'm only stating this now because I'm sure you would take me seriously.

The best thing I got from this thread is that it reminded me that its probably been ten years since my last tetanus shot. Time for a booster.

Apparenlty Juice didn't get the joke.

You just got to educate yourself on it there is a lot of deception and misinformation out there (you know evil profit companies trying to trick you).

The only true organic label is: 'USDA organic' seal. This is the one and only label that means the food has to be 95% organic (it can say 100% organic if it is), meaning it must be produced without most pesticides hormones antibiotics etc...

A few more wacky rules is that food that is at least 70% organic can only list the word 'organic' on the front of the package and it can also list ingredients on the front of the package. If it's less than 70% the organic ingredients can only be listed on the side of the package and it cannot say 'organic' on the front.

There are a lot of other catch words that food companies use to try and trick you such as all natural or healthy etc...

The food industry is very clever and will deceive you in any way they can.

Now this isn't to say all USDA organic foods are even necessarily better for you. Sure thin skinned foods such as apples or grapes are better because their skin is easily penetrated by the chemicals but a orange or banana may not be as susceptible with their thicker skin, and the fact you don't eat the peel so in these cases the value of organic vs non-organic is marginal at best.

I guess the point of this post is to open your eyes to all the lies and deception that is all around you even in your grocery store.

+100

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2652241580/

start at the 41 minute mark for a polite summation