Hi everyone!

If your alliance has an open list pact with PDM we're planning to open the grabbing lists this week.

In case you're not familiar with what the open list is; basically it's built around a concept that a subset of countries in each tag are considered "open" and are set to "will retal" status. Only countries on the open list are allowed to grab each other; those who do not opt in are left to explore in peace. The goal is to be courteous to eachother without explicitly planning out each hit. This is something we've been doing for several rounds but we'd like to highlight it this round! There are other terms but they differ from pact to pact so please consult your alliance leaders for the exact terms!

To other alliance leaders: I'm going to start harassing you starting tomorrow. :) If you have a pact with PDM already, let's finalize our lists and get them exchanged! If you don't have a pact with PDM and are interested in exploring open list grabbing further, please let me know!

To other players: if you're interested in learning more about open lists, I'd encourage you to apply to PDM at http://pdm.boxcarhosting.com :) Otherwise, I'd encourage you to try the open-list style of grabbing out. It's kind of like wearing throwback jerseys of a time when every clan wasn't pacted out :p

We're planning to keep an open dialogue going with all of the FAs from the open list partners to ensure there isn't any ill feelings developing.

Thanks!
pang
PDM Overlord of External Relations
http://pdm.boxcarhosting.com

YAY!

FARM!!!

jk ;)

YAY!

MISSILING TECHERS NEXT WEEK WHEN THEY START STOCKING!!!!!!

jk ;)

How about I just hit you guys and you don't retal because I am AWESOME.

sounds grrrreat!!

oh yeah, confirmed - we should have our list this week, so if you have a grabbing pact with us, its showtime - I'm going to be knocking on doors and looking for lists

Yay!! I think I heard this was called "landtrading" :P

actually its not at all. land trading is when countries pre-arrange hits on each other and coordinate their DR's and optimize the returns for both countries.

What these grabbing lists mean is that any 'opted in' country in one of the pacted clans is free to launch a grab at one of our opted in countries as if we were not pacted. There is no coordination, PDM simply believes that the last decade of people getting butt hurt about landgrabbing has been counter productive to the game. Grabbing is good and we want to encourage it.

A grabbing pact basically means that we wont war you but reasonable landgrabbing is not going to be punished by idiotic retal policies.

this is actually a good policy from PDM, galleri

the problem comes when countries on this list "sign up" to grab the same RD country 20 times in a set without escalating retals or anything

That was actually a very different arrangement that only involves a few PDM countries, we're not apologizing for it because it was and is an interesting experiment, but it is scaling back.

We actually have grabbing uNaps with tags that we've not always had great relations with, in a lot of ways - having to deal with one another managing lists and retal fluff-ups has brought us closer to some of our former rivals. Its basically like not being pacted to us except we agree not to war each other.

Cool idea. Not that I need to be on any lists :P

good!

i thought pdm were giving themselves up as farmland...

damn, back to exploring i guess :(

Should be renamed to the "We can't net without landtrading" list.

oh pdm cannet?

That is preferable instade of driving every new single member away from alliance server with 40 farmhits / day.

this would have been fluffy, but fact remains that yer still landtrading which makes this thread moot

This is quite distinct from the organized landtrading that people are upset about. This is just allowing an alliance to allow their grabbers to grab while leaving the guys who want to do all-x do it in peace. It's a win-win. Obviously, landtrading would not require any "open" lists as the two players would just plan it together.

Not really this thread but any netgaining "achievements" PDM has

http://earthgraphs.com/...amp;num=636&reset=327
http://earthgraphs.com/...amp;num=147&reset=327
http://earthgraphs.com/...amp;num=157&reset=327
http://earthgraphs.com/...&num=13&reset=327

Ivan: every LG that gets retal'd is a land trade. So when a SoF members grabbs someone, and then that SoF member gets retal'd then a SoF member has just land traded.

The difference between "land trading" and grabing pact list is: random, rules, and of course no organization between countries. Just LG and Retals.

Every time someone makes a landgrab which was successfully retalled, they were landtrading. I believe SoL is one of the main offenders here.

2012-04-19 17:24 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 902A (+763A)
2012-04-19 17:21 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 1,259A (+950A)
2012-04-19 17:21 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 1,026A (+787A)
2012-04-19 17:19 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 924A (+708A)
2012-04-19 17:18 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 793A (+655A)

Call this whatever you want Requiem, I dont really care feel free to play with words and attempt some fluffy trolling

this thread is about open list pacts, please keep it on topic and flame us elsewhere if you feel the need to.

i'll flame detmer wherever the heck i wanna!

detmer smells like farts

What Pang is attempting to say is that the open list is a different entity, and in addition to any other interaction programs PDM might have.

The open list is solid, as it helps allow the all explorers build in peace.

lol, what beats me is why any war alliance would care who is land-trading?

What beats me is how Ivan cannot tell the difference between the two. Anoniem, do you understand the difference? (I bet you do)

[quote poster=Ivan; 16892; 309481]2012-04-19 17:24 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 902A (+763A)
2012-04-19 17:21 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 1,259A (+950A)
2012-04-19 17:21 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 1,026A (+787A)
2012-04-19 17:19 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 924A (+708A)
2012-04-19 17:18 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 793A (+655A)

Call this whatever you want Requiem, I dont really care feel free to play with words and attempt some fluffy trolling [/quote]

i have to say that i agree that it is most definitely land-trading, in the sense of what ivan is getting at.

though, the open list thing pang posted is not, particularly when you have terms such as a country cannot be grabbed more than once in a 48hr or 72hr period.

[quote poster=anoniem; 16892; 309523][quote poster=Ivan; 16892; 309481]2012-04-19 17:24 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 902A (+763A)
2012-04-19 17:21 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 1,259A (+950A)
2012-04-19 17:21 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 1,026A (+787A)
2012-04-19 17:19 NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] PS 924A (+708A)
2012-04-19 17:18 Mr Titanium (#16) [ResDogs] NewToysForAll (#13) [Paradigm] PS 793A (+655A)

Call this whatever you want Requiem, I dont really care feel free to play with words and attempt some fluffy trolling [/quote]

i have to say that i agree that it is most definitely land-trading, in the sense of what ivan is getting at.

though, the open list thing pang posted is not, particularly when you have terms such as a country cannot be grabbed more than once in a 48hr or 72hr period. [/quote]

Exactly, my point is that Ivan cites that while saying grabbing pacts is the same thing. He doesn't have a mechanizm in his brain to allow him to differentiate the two.

But my farts smell like candy!

For those who cannot see the different between landtrading and an open list, then you should try to join one, or try to arrange another landtrading.

I think open lists are a step in the right direction and I do like it. Maybe in the future SoF may participate.

lol, sov I just spied a couple of fat sof countries to grab tomorrow when my bushels sell, you dont realize it - but you already are participating

;p

Oh I realise the difference requiem, I just dont see how it matters when PDM still landtrades

I endorse the open list concept.

Archaic go ahead and grab fat sofers, went you get completely raped in retals it shall be amusing

This sounds like an interesting policy, wil be curious to see how it outplays

Jesus christ, Ivan. Just fluff off already. How does so called landtrading even affect sof?? Why do you care? When did sof develop a moral highground?

Ya... SoF's moral highground is still beneath many layers of dirt, oil, shale, and dinosaur skeletons.

if you're so upset by PDM landtrading, why did you pact the worst offenders -- RD (whose landwhoring puts ours to shame)? Why did you not include a single anti-landtrading term with them when they are the ones who are winning ANW? PDM'ers are just messing around and having a good time.

Drop the act and just say you don't like PDM and stop trying to hide behind some veil of pretend morality. you're nothing but a two-bit troll who wasn't even around when SoF was an alliance which garnered an ounce of respect and was able to do anything outside the shadow of their big brother (SoL for a while, LaF since).

now get the hell off our thread.

oh and PS, we've had this policy for probably at least a year and have been doing it with alliances every round since I've had visibility into our pacting situation.

in fact, this idea predates any kind of arranged landtrading. we're finally getting good buyin (both internally and externally).

i love how anti-PDM fanboys think they knew our history better than us :p

Well, they ARE LaF's lapdogs. And all they do is complain about other alliances' landgrab pacts, instead of actually doing anything about it.

it's actually the other way around; they decided that PDM was an alliance they should bully around because we're the right size and weren't political. Then they tried to clutch at straws to find a reason to start fluff with us for several rounds and the straw they ended up grabbing onto firmest was landtrading.

So that's the SoF strategy re: landtrading -> start issues with the alliance that does the 3rd most landtrading per capita while pacting the others and not even bothering to discuss it publicly! wear your hypocricy on your sleeve, guys!

and SoF's been a lapdog since like 2009 and I see no way for them to break out of that at this stage. they need to hide under the protective wing of LaF's power. They'll be back on SoL's side eventually, lapdogging it over there too.

i mean even if sof keeps starting issues with PDM, what does that prove? that sof's a lapdog who can't fight a decent war-oriented opponent when the war isn't directed by LaF? lol

I don't even remember the last time SoF won a decent war that LaF didn't help them set up so SoF would win. And I include last round's war in that group too. It's the reason I no longer speak to Hanlong at all. Every single convo with him ends up leaked.

I find it amusing how one SoFer makes a comment and you all nerdrage against SoF. Nerdrage more. You will.

that one soffer is your upper level leader who was asked nicely to not flame us on our thread. he is also one of the people who has perpetuated this conflict, along with you.

sorry, sov, but you don't have a leg to stand on. if he's goign to troll us, we can troll sof too -- we have more ammo :p

you can come in and try to act all nice like sof isn't doing anything wrong, but it gets seen through.

and PS. I was the only one who really attacked SoF at all. And I think I have every right to flame SoF whenever I want based on how you SoF'ers treated me last round.

Isn't PDM about the same size as EVO was a couple resets ago when SoF FSed EVO OOP? And weren't SoF getting their heads handed to them before the holiday ceasefire? And weren't they desperately getting FA from LaF in the final days?

Just saying, I don't think it's the size SoF are aiming for here. I could be wrong tho.

well to be fair, nukevil... you guys pretty much knew that war was coming and were prepared for it (if memory serves me correct). If I can prepare for an early war against an opponent -- and the opponent doesn't know i'm preparing -- we'll do quite well too. OOP you get more opportunity to switch easily + restart and make an impact. sof lost that war because of hubris more than anything else; just like the ECM war. with the new changes to restarts, it changes the dynamic of early wars for sure. that's not meant to take anything away from Evo -- you guys did great that round. But it's not a similar situation as with PDM. I'd much rather have an OOP war than a week 5 war where my guys have no stock or war prep. Also, SoF hit you because of LaF, didn't they? ANd I think SoF learned their lesson too -- no OOP wars because it's too easy for it to go bad. And it looks really bad when you lose (that's why SoF never even discusses that topic and completely ignores it, just like they will on this thread)

but that would be some pretty sour grapes for sof to hit pdm this round. so I guess I better put us on alert, eh?

like what would it prove? that sof are complete fluffs and not just kind of fluffs? :p

I don't care enough about either of you and your over-emotional rants to even try to answer them. Let me know how playing that martyr card works out for you.

i wish the rest of your clan had the same opinion of me because then you'd have left me alone instead of being jerks consistently. it was just uncool and uncalled for, especially as I became less active due to being very busy at work. lowered my opinion of several people a LOT.

you should absolutely respond to a few charges though, like why you pacted other more active landtraders but flame us instead? you should at least be an equal opportunity flamer...

martyr card? we're just telling the history. sorry your rose coloured glasses don't let you agree with it. let me know how playing the douchebag card continues working for you and the other SoF leaders. you guys came here to attack us; we aren't seeking you out.

Pang you are giving to much attention to folks that just troll around all the day.

A vast majority of this comunity prefeers to farm the n00bs out of the game instade of working out healthy enviroment solutions.

For them - oh well - you have no explanation to give. Because they simply suck!!!

it's fun to beat them at their own game once in a while. :)

I would have thought that was obvious after SoF used the excuse of their loss in the ECM war to FS EVO 4 or 5 resets later because EVO overestimated SoF's future membership numbers from their merge with Rage and recruited too much:

http://forums.earthempires.com/...z=sof-declares-war-on-evo

LaF was just the cherry on top. Evo was prepping for LaF, not for SoF.

In fact, I can sorta remember on day 3 or so of that reset, when I told KJ that SoF looked to be hitting someone early because of their country builds, and that someone was likely to be Evo because they didn't renew their pact and KJ's like "ya know, you may be right" (he didn't say exactly that, but it was something like that). Late the next day, SoF FSed Evo.

that's interesting; i thought it was re: a more short-term issue, not over ECM but that does make sense. ivan was sure bitter about ECM. I was in the warchats :p
it was sad at the time, but looking back now I find it rather funny

also interesting was how sof was going around the server telling most folks who would listen that PDM was planning to hit SoF OOP this round because we were bitter about last round.

which was completely untrue (obviously)... that's not how we do things.
we have more class than that.